tuttepeever
Herring
Herring
366 Posts

Does anyone feel as I do?

[Post New]by tuttepeever on Nov 10, 11 11:48 PM
It is my observation that there is a current trend by the developers to handhold us all through a game. It makes for an easy game to play but not nearly as challenging as those in the distant past. Is this because it makes the development less complicated and speeds up the entire process? Also all this walking back and forth makes it seem like a much longer game than it really is. It becomes quite tedious IMO. No real need for a Strategy guide when the Hint systems provides for every move. I guess there has to be some justification to make it a CE. What is it??? Most of the current games have extraordinarily beautiful graphics and I truly love that but versus some of the old games I still own, I enjoy them less.

I couldn't navigate my way through these games without the fast Hint System since there is a lack of thread in terms of where to go or what to do next.

Just curious to hear if anyone feels as I do?

I was addicted to Nintendo games when they first game out and over the years noticed how the focus became on the graphics versus the challenge. Loved those early ones as in Zelda, Adventure Island, Mario etc. Haven't played them in 15 years and still miss the challenge of the eye hand co-ordination that was required.

Probably not geared to those who require instant gratification.

I think I am getting too long in the tooth and nostalgic. There is something to be said for the 'good old days'. Change is the only constant and I remind myself of that every day.

 
mamajay
Angelfish
Angelfish
1,222 Posts

Re:Does anyone feel as I do?

[Post New]by mamajay on Nov 10, 11 11:54 PM
I have to agree that the constant toing and froing does become rather boring after a while. I have actually felt relief when I finally got to do a H0 or other action, lol.

I have also wondered why some hint systems are giving so much detail when an SG has also been provided - perhaps it is really meant to help those playing the SE versions?

With this game, I am still trying to decide if I want to keep toing and froing, or wait for some other game, lol.

Jen

 
SoManyCrimes
Minnow
Minnow
214 Posts

Re:Does anyone feel as I do?

[Post New]by SoManyCrimes on Nov 11, 11 6:28 AM
I have a suggestion: try the game on Hardcore mode, where there are no hints or skip function. Don't worry, you can switch it back if you're really stuck.

I felt, like you, that because these games are often so badly designed, relying on wacky logic and nonsense physics, I wouldn't be able to get through them without being able to resort to the hints. What if there was a puzzle that no-one in their right mind could solve?

But here's the thing. Whilst these games clearly could be better designed, they're actually no stupider than a lot of the adventure games from the past. I know people love Gabriel Knight 3, for example, but the level of barminess showed there makes a lot of these games seem eminently plausible! If I'm truly painfully honest about it, the problem is that I can't be trusted not to use the hint system if I'm a little bit stuck.

I rationalise it like this: I'm stuck, I'm good at these games, there are instances where it's the puzzle that's stupid, not me, therefore clicking this hint button isn't so much cheating as stopping myself from wasting my time. But it's got to the point where I probably can't stand being stuck for more than about a minute before I assume it's the games fault and not mine and cheat. And 90% of the time I'm wrong. If I'd taken the time to click about a bit more then I would almost certainly have solved it on my own.

So I really appreciated the inclusion of Hardcore mode. Obviously the hint systems should be in place, because not every player is in my situation. But there should be an option to turn it all off. Because it turns out I don't need them and can't be trusted with them. And that blaming the developers was mostly an excuse. I just needed to be forced to be patient. And I wonder if I'm alone in this.

Because although I didn't enjoy the end of the game for other reasons, I did manage to get all the way through without cheating, and then the toing and froing felt more like exploration and less like busywork.

Edited on 11/11/2011 at 6:30:37 AM PST


 
textrekkie
Shark
Shark
13,265 Posts

Re:Does anyone feel as I do?

[Post New]by textrekkie on Nov 11, 11 8:05 AM
But what is the point of Hardcore when there are so many hints given everytime you click on something?

You pick up a key - it's not just a key it's the cupboard key; you click on a chest and you're told you need a pirate's emblem and to drill the locks.

I'm really tired of games that give everything away in text throughout the game. That's not hardcore mode to me. There is a strategy guide for people who want to use it, there are hint and skip buttons for those who wish to use them. So why put everything into the text as well.

 
SoManyCrimes
Minnow
Minnow
214 Posts

Re:Does anyone feel as I do?

[Post New]by SoManyCrimes on Nov 11, 11 8:34 AM
@texttrekkie: That's interesting. I suppose I look on that sort of thing as clueing. I'd be pretty annoyed if there wasn't any clueing to tell me what item to used where. When so many of these game worlds don't follow real-world logic or physics, I think there have to be clues (visual or textual) to show you that you're on the right track.

So I guess your point is that these clues are too obvious?

I don't necessarily disagree, but I would respond by suggesting that the game wouldn't be improved if some (only some) of the sorts of clues you've complained about were removed.

Mentioning drilling the locks I can see is spoiling a puzzle. You have a drill, a locked box, and the connection is not immediately obvious without the blatant clue. I can see that there'd be a sense of achievement from solving that on your own which is undermined by the text.

But telling me that the key is a cupboard key? Is the game really improved by it just being called "key"? Imagine you found an item called "key". What would you do? You'd traipse back through everywhere you saw a lock and try each one until it opened. I don't think I'd feel proud that I'd found the right lock, I think I'd be relieved that the backtracking was over. That's not fun. That's not even a puzzle. Sure it requires more thought than in the "cupboard key" scenario. But it's not really the sort of thinking I want to be bothered with. It's mechanical and repetitive.

Surely what is required is more actual puzzles and fewer instances of inserting keys into locks, labelled or otherwise?

Edited on 11/11/2011 at 8:35:59 AM PST


 
banshee10
Clownfish
Clownfish
564 Posts

Re:Does anyone feel as I do?

[Post New]by banshee10 on Nov 11, 11 9:19 AM
I agree with most of the points that all of you referred to so far.
Maybe most of us are too experienced by now, depending on how many games like these we've already known. I must admit that meanwhile I'm used to focus on reviews like "easy one if you're familiar with this type of games" or, even worse, "quite a lot hand-holding". I refuse to buy games like this because I want a replay value, not only a short disposable pastime (I'm no fast-food lover ).

Too bad that neither developers nor game selling companies give you a ranking system like "beginners", "advanced"...
And no - the in-game modes are not sufficient.

 
Tundei
Clownfish
Clownfish
653 Posts

Re:Does anyone feel as I do?

[Post New]by Tundei on Nov 11, 11 9:32 PM
textrekkie wrote:But what is the point of Hardcore when there are so many hints given everytime you click on something?

You pick up a key - it's not just a key it's the cupboard key; you click on a chest and you're told you need a pirate's emblem and to drill the locks.

I'm really tired of games that give everything away in text throughout the game. That's not hardcore mode to me. There is a strategy guide for people who want to use it, there are hint and skip buttons for those who wish to use them. So why put everything into the text as well.



agree

 
 
 
 
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