jojo_the_joyful
Salmon
Salmon
2,761 Posts

Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by jojo_the_joyful on Dec 18, 11 2:39 AM
Hi all.

I really do not have time at the moment to post a review so I am putting this in a seperate thread.

I caved in & bought it from the developers site a few weeks ago @ the time EFR was released.

I had just replayed all of RE I & was worried because of the negatives i had heard.

Well IMHO, this game is just as good. It is different. Would you feel if you had your moneys worth if it was just a reworking of REI ?

So yes it is timed, but the timers are VERY generous.

Re the clicking. It may feel like a lot, because there are no tax collectors, but you still had to click for the tax collector to collect, so as far as I can see, one cancels out the other.

Having said that there are a few flurries of clicking, like when you open the chest. and the things do disappear after a while, but I did find, once I got used to it & cottoned on to how to play I easily collected most things in time.

Basically as far as I can tell this game is still as cute and endearing as the first but requires a totally different strategy approach which I found fun and refreshing, especially when playing both games back to back.

I hope this helps dissolve some fears associated with this game, same game, different approach.

Jojo

Edited on 12/18/2011 at 2:40:45 AM PST


 
Valdy
Marlin
Marlin
9,383 Posts

Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by Valdy on Dec 18, 11 2:59 AM
jojo_the_joyful wrote:So yes it is timed, but the timers are VERY generous.

Jojo


Hi Jojo, and thanks for the info. I have also read at another review site that this game is timed only. I don't care how generous the timer is, I don't buy games which don't give me a relaxed mode or at least let me continue to play after the timer is done.

I really did enjoy the first game. I enjoyed it so much, that I bought the CE version after buying the SE. However, what I didn't realise was that the bonus game in the CE only lets you play timed games. Which means, that I was not able to open all of the bonus games, because I just couldn't manage to get through most of the games in time to get a gold star, which then opens a new game section (I am not a fast-clicking person and don't to play these kind of "frenzy" games).

I was rather annoyed that I was able to ignore the timer in the main game, but weren't allowed to in the bonus game. That wasn't a bonus for me at all - it was punishment for having bought the CE. I had assumed that there were just more places to do in the bonus game, but didn't realise that I had to get a certain amount of gold stars to open up a new section.

Therefore, even if this game would have allowed me to continue after the timer was done, I would probably not have bought the CE, because the bonus games in this game would also only have the timed version.

Happy day everyone !

 
jenny1983
Parrotfish
Parrotfish
488 Posts

Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by jenny1983 on Dec 18, 11 3:38 AM
Valdy wrote:

Hi Jojo, and thanks for the info. I have also read at another review site that this game is timed only. I don't care how generous the timer is, I don't buy games which don't give me a relaxed mode or at least let me continue to play after the timer is done.


Hi Valdy I so agree with you. Even with a generous timer, since I know in the back of my mind that if I fail within the time limit I will have to repeat the level, I am reluctantly passing on this one.

 

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by GamerPop on Dec 18, 11 3:49 AM
I'm one that bought both 1 and 2 from the developer. Royal Envoy 1 CE was my first time-management/strategy game. I still play it. I did not find out until later that most TM games at the time had timers that made you start over. The Build-A-Lot series was one I never got into because of the timers.

For Royal Envoy 2 in the "EXTRA" section, Making Of, Part 4 (on page 10) the developers explain why they got rid of the "relaxed" mode.

I would like an explanation as to why they could not have let the timer run and give you either 1, 2, or 3 stars. I love the new format, new characters and new lands to explore but am sorely disappointed in the lack of a "let me play till I figure it out" mode.

I was able to finish all regular modes with 3 gold stars - but only after frustrating restarts. Especially that last level. I was barely able to garner enough stars for the bonus levels to open the next 10.

As for the Expert mode of the original levels... hah! Not on your life. One site said to buy more workers to get through the first level in expert mode. Gimme a break - or at least a chance.

I'll probably play the original levels over and over but not the bonus or expert levels. So, I payed for a CE and got a SE. But, I knew when I was buying it that there was a restart timer. I just didn't think the expert mode would be so frustrating.

That's my opinion. I like TMs, but not when they cut me off. Guess that's why I'm going to put Royal Envoy 2 "on the shelf" and go play Virtual City 2 for the umpteenth time.

 
shagwendy
Stingray
Stingray
4,926 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by shagwendy on Dec 18, 11 6:32 AM
I haven't played the demo yet, but I wish they hadn't changed anything. I thought it was the perfect game, the one that got me into this type. After playing this one last January, I tried all the other games suggested as similar and I hated every other one of them. Nothing compared to RE. I didn't want a different game for #2, I wanted the same game with different scenarios, Oh, well, I'm going into it with an open mind and the 2 credits I didn't spent on Drawn, Azada, or MCF...oh that's right, those are the other popular games that really changed their format this year

 
pecabo1338
Clownfish
Clownfish
549 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by pecabo1338 on Dec 18, 11 6:35 AM
I purchased this game from the developer and really regret it. I can't deal with the stoppers on every stinking level. I hated this game so much, I tossed it into my dead games folder.

No walkthrough in this alleged collector's edition. I forced myself to get to level 56, then I said this game is really, really, really upsetting me. I hate it.

Royal Envoy I is my all time favorite game, but this one I found totally unbearable to play. RESTART RESTART RESTART RESTART RESTART ETC

If that's your bag then this is the game for you.

I still can't believe Playrix took a hugely popular game and killed it.

If it's not broke, don't fix it.

They fixed it alright and the only thing that's the same is the name.

Good grief how I hate this game. And to think I've been waiting for it.

The entire stinking game is utterly different.

I can't believe I actually wasted my time playing the 56 levels. Disappointment would be a mild description.

 
Valdy
Marlin
Marlin
9,383 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by Valdy on Dec 18, 11 6:50 AM
pecabo1338 wrote:I purchased this game from the developer and really regret it. I can't deal with the stoppers on every stinking level. I hated this game so much, I tossed it into my dead games folder.

No walkthrough in this alleged collector's edition.


(((huggles))) for Pecabo for feeling the way I would have felt had I bought this game.

I read in the "Reviews" thread that there is a walkthrough. Apparently, it's the questionmark somewhere at the top. Don't ask me where exactly, I didn't even bother to demo this game.

Edited for spelling

Edited on 12/18/2011 at 6:51:11 AM PST


 
chiniakbay
Starfish
Starfish
51 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by chiniakbay on Dec 18, 11 7:04 AM
I loved the first one and was excited to see this one, however, after reading the reviews, I will not purchase it. The ONLY reason is the timer. I like to take my time and figure it out and not have to watch the stupid clock, I did that enough at my job. I don't understand why they can't put a "relaxed" mode on it. Too bad, was hoping for a new game to play this morning because it's raining here.

Edited on 12/18/2011 at 7:04:52 AM PST


 
SoManyCrimes
Minnow
Minnow
214 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by SoManyCrimes on Dec 18, 11 7:12 AM
My trial ran out, but I'm positive there was a walkthrough. SOMETHING definitely showed up when I clicked the question mark but I didn't look at it long enough to see whether it was informative or useful. I don't see what use a walkthrough could possibly be, though? If you have time to follow step by step instructions then there's surely time to complete the level normally? It's a very frantic game.

I don't remember playing the first Royal Envoy. Did you not have to click on the resources? To be honest, I don't see why they can't just go straight into your resources box. It's not exactly a test of intellect to click on everything, and you either have the dexterity to click on everything in time or you don't.

I like the timers, though. I can understand wanting to make them longer, but removing them entirely? Without them I don't see what the point would be. For me there's no point in a challenge like this without the possibility of failure. It's not like there's an aesthetic component to building up these towns (like Sim City, or Roller Coaster Tycoon, where the fun is mainly in seeing what you can create): they all look the same. And there's not really a "brain teaser" component either. With unlimited time, it doesn't matter what you choose to do, you'll always get there in the end. So for me (if I was viewing it as an optimisation puzzle) it wouldn't feel like I'd solved it.

Of course that's not a reason for the designers not to include an "untimed" option at the start. I just wouldn't have chosen it. But I'm interested from a game design point of view: if it's not the challenge of beating the clock, what's the appeal of a game like this? There clearly is one, or so many people wouldn't be upset about the timers.

 
SoManyCrimes
Minnow
Minnow
214 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by SoManyCrimes on Dec 18, 11 7:26 AM
A hypothetical question, (because I'm working on my own game): would the people who are stressed by timers be equally stressed by a move limit? So, if it was this game, you can take as long as you want, but every time you send out a worker or built a building some sort of "action" resource was depleted? Is it the possibility of failure that's stressful, or the being rushed?


 
Dialogue
Minnow
Minnow
202 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by Dialogue on Dec 18, 11 7:46 AM
Thank you for letting us know about the timer. This is a no try for me. I didn't get very far into the first Royal Envoy within the time limit. I probably would never finish this one, even with a generous timer (What is a generous timer at the higher levels?). Besides, the only reason I even tried the first one is because I could play beyond the time the timer ran out. I enjoyed the game but I'm not going to be taxed by this new one.

 

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by darkdisciple1313 on Dec 18, 11 7:48 AM
This is just a passing-through comment, since I haven't checked out the game yet, but after reading the comments, I had to chime in with:

Y'all do realize that this is a TIME MANAGEMENT game, don'tcha? Therefore, it makes sense that the developers would put in a TIMER for a TIME MANAGEMENT game? The timer is the entire point of playing a game like Royal Envoy 1 & 2: to manage one's time properly in order to get the best score possible. Expecting something other than this is just a wee bit silly.

Granted, I understand the desire to be able to just have fun and play around with things, but that would not be a TIME MANAGEMENT game. It would be a sandbox game, which is a whole different genre. Griping about a timer in a time management game is like buying a super sports car, then complaining because it goes too fast.

 
govegril
Stingray
Stingray
5,727 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by govegril on Dec 18, 11 7:49 AM
SoManyCrimes wrote:A hypothetical question, (because I'm working on my own game): would the people who are stressed by timers be equally stressed by a move limit? So, if it was this game, you can take as long as you want, but every time you send out a worker or built a building some sort of "action" resource was depleted? Is it the possibility of failure that's stressful, or the being rushed?



When I first discovered TM's I used to post here all the time about needing TM's without timers because I was just so hopeless at them. I loved them but as I am a slow player just could not do them.

Since I learned TM's ARE about strategy and not just fast clicking now I do great - I will never be a total expert as you do need some speed but I can get by on all expert for nearly all TM's now just using strategy and nous

Nowadays I would not dream of asking for a timer but when I was a beginner it did help me learn to play the games having a bit more time to think about what I was doing

 
SoManyCrimes
Minnow
Minnow
214 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by SoManyCrimes on Dec 18, 11 8:06 AM
darkdisciple1313 wrote: Granted, I understand the desire to be able to just have fun and play around with things, but that would not be a TIME MANAGEMENT game. It would be a sandbox game, which is a whole different genre. Griping about a timer in a time management game is like buying a super sports car, then complaining because it goes too fast.


I broadly agree, in the sense that I really can't see the appeal of playing a game like this in a sandbox mode. There just isn't the variety that a sandbox needs. But that still doesn't explain why they end the level after you pass the time for 1 star. It just doesn't achieve anything, beyond alientating a portion of the customer base. A portion, as it turns out, that might be quite significant.

I have no problem with the fast clicking, but I just don't find it very interesting. Not only is time the principle resource in these games, it's basically the only resource. It's so easy to get the other resources and so cheap to convert between them that it often doesn't matter what you do, provided that you're doing SOMETHING. This is especially true on the later levels when there are a lot more buildings and you have to build them all at some point or other. The only mistake is to stop giving orders, for even a few seconds. Whilst I can do it, I don't find it very stimulating, and I can certainly see why others find it downright stressful.

And I suppose the response to that is "well, then these games aren't for you". Which is fine, but there are a few games that manage to be both frantic and thoughtful. Miss Management, for instance, didn't feel like you were just clicking madly, it felt like you were clicking madly AND trying to keep ten different plates spinning. That's the sort of thing I want!

Edited on 12/18/2011 at 8:06:45 AM PST


 

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by darkdisciple1313 on Dec 18, 11 8:07 AM
SoManyCrimes wrote:A hypothetical question, (because I'm working on my own game): would the people who are stressed by timers be equally stressed by a move limit? So, if it was this game, you can take as long as you want, but every time you send out a worker or built a building some sort of "action" resource was depleted? Is it the possibility of failure that's stressful, or the being rushed?



This is a great question, actually. My snarky response to the whole issue about complaing about the timer in a time management game aside, there are people who do enjoy playing games like this, but would rather have it set up differently. All understandable, which is why I don't care for time management games in general, but do like Royal Envoy specifically.

Move limits are employed in certain types of games that aren't in the time management genre, especially those involving recreations of various wars (Axis and Allies comes to mind). My problem with them is that they require even more strategic knowledge than with the timers in time management games. I get inordinately frustrated when I'm trying to get a tank in place, only to run out of moves before I can get it there (and thereafter get it blown off the planet by a lucky rocket strike, grrrrr). They might work in a time-management game such as Royal Envoy, but it would then place the game in a different genre.

If a third game is made for this series, I honestly would like to see a straight sandbox version included, whereby players could just do whatever they wanted without worrying about timers or resource management, while those of us who would rather play the game as it was meant to be played could enjoy doing that as well. Unfortunately, as the developer is likely not flush with cash and time (no pun intended), that likely won't happen.

A good question, all the same.

 
bella81762
Orca Whale
Orca Whale
24,424 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by bella81762 on Dec 18, 11 8:16 AM
darkdisciple1313 wrote:This is just a passing-through comment, since I haven't checked out the game yet, but after reading the comments, I had to chime in with:

Y'all do realize that this is a TIME MANAGEMENT game, don'tcha? Therefore, it makes sense that the developers would put in a TIMER for a TIME MANAGEMENT game? The timer is the entire point of playing a game like Royal Envoy 1 & 2: to manage one's time properly in order to get the best score possible. Expecting something other than this is just a wee bit silly.

Granted, I understand the desire to be able to just have fun and play around with things, but that would not be a TIME MANAGEMENT game. It would be a sandbox game, which is a whole different genre. Griping about a timer in a time management game is like buying a super sports car, then complaining because it goes too fast.


almost all the building games, with the exception of MKFAP, you can continue to play after the timer runs out, most of us do try to still get gold,(btw, i got gold in all levels bonus and expert, in RE2,) TMs have many different subcatagories, just as hogs do, and those that love the building tm,s generally dont care for dash tm,s, just as someone might love a IHOG, but hate a FROG,
its not silly, to want the building games to be like the others timer wise, just as its not silly to not play a FROG if you dont like frogs,

 
mkastor
Herring
Herring
375 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by mkastor on Dec 18, 11 8:18 AM
I'm glad we finally got a new TM game but I'm disappointed that it will cost me $13.99 to buy it. They can keep the free magnet..I'll take it for $6.99 instead!

 
SoManyCrimes
Minnow
Minnow
214 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by SoManyCrimes on Dec 18, 11 8:23 AM
darkdisciple1313 wrote: Move limits are employed in certain types of games that aren't in the time management genre, especially those involving recreations of various wars (Axis and Allies comes to mind).


My problem with wargames like that is always that historical accuracy trumps sreamlining for fun purposes. Which usually results in about three thousand different things which all basically function in the same way but which have slightly different attributes, all of which you have to bear in mind. There's a fine balance between streamlining away all the interesting choices and bloating out your game with stuff. But that's by the by...

I'm just thinking a lot about difficulty levels, lately. On the one hand, no-one should be stressed out by something they've bought for the purposes of relaxation. On the other hand, a large portion of the customer base wants a challenge, and will feel like the game is pointless without some measure of difficulty.

Letting the timer run on (or allowing instant skips of mini-games or unlimited clicking in h0 scenes etc, etc) seems like the best solution, but parallel to that, there's the nagging notion that people actually don't have as good a grasp on what they will and won't enjoy as they think, and it's tempting to force people to endure a little bit of stress if you think it will improve their overall enjoyment. (As an example. My mother decided she hated computer games with no real experience of them; she'd just played a bad one once! But once she was cajoled into trying one I thought she'd like she basically became an addict!) If you remove all the challenge, or do something like having endless timers, you lose the opportunity to "nudge" people into trying harder things. But then is that overstepping the mark?

My solution so far is to have a large number of difficulty levels with different content, each one harder than the last. So when you finish one the game will gently suggest you might want to try again on a harder one. But that involves a lot of content generation. It seems like there ought to be a more efficient solution.

Edited on 12/18/2011 at 8:32:02 AM PST


 
bella81762
Orca Whale
Orca Whale
24,424 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by bella81762 on Dec 18, 11 8:29 AM
great point somany, island tribe 3 was just released at the devs with 4 timer options,, starting at no timer, casual, hard , and extreme,,, really gives a lot of replay value to get gold on all the different modes,

 
kimcol
Squid
Squid
65 Posts

Re:Royal Envoy 1 V Royal Envoy II: My take.

[Post New]by kimcol on Dec 18, 11 8:30 AM
darkdisciple1313 wrote:This is just a passing-through comment, since I haven't checked out the game yet, but after reading the comments, I had to chime in with:

Y'all do realize that this is a TIME MANAGEMENT game, don'tcha? Therefore, it makes sense that the developers would put in a TIMER for a TIME MANAGEMENT game? The timer is the entire point of playing a game like Royal Envoy 1 & 2: to manage one's time properly in order to get the best score possible. ...


Oh, you're right! I tend not to like TM games-I find them stressful. However, RE1 is one of my favorite games ever - I've played it several times. I played the demo of part two on the developer's site just yesterday. The main thing that bothered me during the demo: why do the guys go the trouble of picking the fruit and chopping the wood and then just leave it there? Why don't they carry it back to headquarters? The snowball fight was OK. I will try the demo again today and see if I decide to buy. Maybe I can get a free calendar.

 
 
 
 
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