lifetree
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
16 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by lifetree on Mar 5, 11 10:33 AM
Thanks redrosesdz, I also decided to boycott CE's forever.

Actually I was so upset 2 days ago I first cancelled my membership, but then came back because I wasn't sure I would still have access to couple of hundreds I've already bought in the past and which I don't keep on my PC. Could they still be accessed even if the membership would be closed, I don't know?.. I'm still thinking of canceling it. This lake starts to get quite contaminated with cheerleaders, and games are not offered in a quite honest way either.

 
lifetree
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
16 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by lifetree on Mar 5, 11 10:46 AM
I only blame cheerleaders, that's only SOME of the fishies, not all. If you feel offended, then there must be indeed something to be offended.

I found out that I can cancel my membership and keep all my old games.

So, bye bye to all of "you" BFG cheerladers, bye bye since now several months cow-milking BFG business practices!

Happy BFG membership!

 
Cptduzer
Flounder
Flounder
2,474 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by Cptduzer on Mar 5, 11 10:59 AM
@Lizzie, you crack me up, in your own quiet way. Thanks.

@gran - it takes some juevos to post this today. I have long ago quit posting my disdain for CE's and its marketing tools on this forum. But it is probably the singular issue that got me to open my eyes a little more as far as BFG policy, companys, attitudes, etc. And I am a much happier gamer with my eyes wide open. You should not be chastised for questioning - . Most of the vocal unhappy BFGer's were once their largest cheerleaders. If people can't change their minds then I better bring MY pompoms out of the closet, because I used to be a big advocate.

ps. on of my biggest pet peeves - I CAN afford every single CE that BFG releases/contracts - I chose not to for various reasons. But not every person who refuses to buy CE's is doing it for monetary reasons.

 
bfgDonau
Flounder
Flounder
2,464 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by bfgDonau on Mar 5, 11 11:02 AM
Hi everyone,

While it is definitely okay to discuss any concerns or dissatisfaction that you may have with Margrave: The Curse of the Severed Heart Collector's Edition, please remember to keep the discussion constructive and to make sure that any comments made are about the Collector's Edition and not a fellow user or group of users that may have a differing opinion.

If you are responding to the content of a comment from another user, please make sure to always follow all Forum Rules, including:

Treat others with respect. Harassing, attacking, threatening, provoking, calling unwanted attention to, name-calling, insulting, or bothering other users, moderators, or Big Fish Games employees on the forums will not be tolerated. Play nice.


Since this topic is about this game specifically, I'm going to move this thread over to the Margrave: The Curse of the Severed Heart Collector's Edition Forum. It will also continue to show up in the Chit-Chat Corner.

Please contact the moderation team with any questions.

Thanks,

-bfgDonau

 
LizzieK
Whale Shark
Whale Shark
16,190 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by LizzieK on Mar 5, 11 1:23 PM
The extras that go into a Collector’s Edition game are for the most part things that the developer already has created or creates at a minimal cost.

Concept Art is interesting to look at but it does not cost the developer anything to create.

Wallpapers and Screensavers are screen shots from the game.

Music tracks are also in the game and perhaps sometimes they are not offered as a separate item because they are just not that good.

The in-game walkthrough is created at an unbelievably low cost to the developer. No matter how detailed or well done the walkthrough is, the cost is extremely low. I have written walkthroughs and have talked to other walkthrough writers so I know the cost. You would never guess how low the cost is.

While it is good to have an in-game walkthrough there is also a disadvantage to them. The walkthrough published in the BFG blog or on other websites are searchable and the in-game walkthroughs are not. If you are stuck looking for the Ace of Clubs Medallion you have to flip through pages of an in-game walkthrough but you can go to the website walkthroughs and do a word search and find all of the places the Ace of Clubs Medallion shows up in the game.

The extra game play varies greatly from game to game. For an IHOG type game, the standard seems to be thirty minutes to an hour of extra game play. From the comments and reviews in the forums, the extra game play many times is actually part of the story and provides a logical ending to the game. Sometimes the extra game play is a teaser for the sequel to the current game. Sometimes you don’t get some of the extra game play until you play the game a second time.

The extra game play is added work for the developer unless it is something that would have been in the game anyway, such as a proper ending.

What we are starting to see is that games released as CE's are no better than the standard games we had before the CE marketing strategy was conceived. There have always been great games, average games and poor games. If CE’s are to continue they should always be in the Great Games category and they should have enough true separate game play to be worth the extra price. In my opinion, (based on my game play and reading reviews of other players), only a few of the CE games are worth the price.

Edited on 03/06/2011 at 8:09:58 AM PST


 
TnTexas
Angelfish
Angelfish
1,207 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by TnTexas on Mar 5, 11 1:36 PM
lifetree wrote:Thanks redrosesdz, I also decided to boycott CE's forever.

Actually I was so upset 2 days ago I first cancelled my membership, but then came back because I wasn't sure I would still have access to couple of hundreds I've already bought in the past and which I don't keep on my PC. Could they still be accessed even if the membership would be closed, I don't know?.. I'm still thinking of canceling it. This lake starts to get quite contaminated with cheerleaders, and games are not offered in a quite honest way either.


Yes, they can. As long as Big Fish retains the rights to distribute the game, you have access to it once you've bought it - member or not.

As for the original post, I don't see a conflict between defending the concept of CEs in general and questioning whether one in particular deserves the label. They're two different topics and one can easily have no problem with the existence of CEs and feel like a specific one doesn't deserve the title.

Edited on 03/05/2011 at 1:41:16 PM PST


 
bfgDonau
Flounder
Flounder
2,464 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by bfgDonau on Mar 5, 11 3:31 PM
CasualGran wrote:Moderator, now that my CCC thread about this matter also has been placed here, would you please be so kind to close one of these two threads of mine with the same subject? Thank you!


I've just locked the other thread, but wanted to add a quick link in case anyone wants to browse through the comments that had been added to it:

Feel ripped off - this isn't a CE

Hope this helps!

-bfgDonau

 
Valdy
Marlin
Marlin
9,383 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by Valdy on Mar 6, 11 12:50 AM
I find it interesting how the tune changes from day to day. How often have fishies shouted about NOT caring for the extras? How often have I heard them say (me included) that they are not interested in the wallpaper, screensaver and art work?
How often did peeps mention that ONLY the bonus game is important to them, that the bonus game is the only reason they want the CE? Many times.

And now, here you´ve got a CE that hasn´t got those "unnecessary" extras included, and what happens? You feel ripped off.

I love this game. I love the bonus game. And to be honest, I haven´t even realised that those extras everyone here feels should have been included, weren´t included until I saw this thread because, as I said, I don´t care for those extras either, and don´t even look for them. And be honest, how many of you didn´t realise the lack of extras either until you saw this thread?

So, make up your minds, folks. Do you want the extras like art work, screensaver and wallpaper or don´t you?

I think the developers have now listened to our wishes. I know they have - or at least these ones have - because the Strategy Guide is fully functional in the demo - and this was also something everybody shouted about.
I gave Kudos to the developers for allowing us to use the SG in the demo, but who else has noticed this, and appreciated this gesture and given thanks.

ETA to wish everyone a happy Sunday.

Edited on 03/06/2011 at 6:50:32 AM PST


 

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by dobbiemijnboekje on Mar 6, 11 7:31 AM
Valdy, I agree with you.

I really don't understand that people buying this game and saying it is a nice game, and after they finished the game they feel ripped off.

It's your choise to buy this game and paying the price for a CE. BF gives you the change to play for 1 hour. That is enough to see that you like the game or not.

 
elhar02
Guppy
Guppy
149 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by elhar02 on Mar 6, 11 8:42 AM
Dobbie and Valdy...my sentiments exactly

To me this game is quite difficult and without the built-in SG I would have been completely lost at various times so for the CE price it became truly invaluable.

 
TnTexas
Angelfish
Angelfish
1,207 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by TnTexas on Mar 6, 11 11:33 AM
Valdy wrote:I find it interesting how the tune changes from day to day. How often have fishies shouted about NOT caring for the extras? How often have I heard them say (me included) that they are not interested in the wallpaper, screensaver and art work?
How often did peeps mention that ONLY the bonus game is important to them, that the bonus game is the only reason they want the CE? Many times.

And now, here you´ve got a CE that hasn´t got those "unnecessary" extras included, and what happens? You feel ripped off.

I love this game. I love the bonus game. And to be honest, I haven´t even realised that those extras everyone here feels should have been included, weren´t included until I saw this thread because, as I said, I don´t care for those extras either, and don´t even look for them. And be honest, how many of you didn´t realise the lack of extras either until you saw this thread?

So, make up your minds, folks. Do you want the extras like art work, screensaver and wallpaper or don´t you?


Different people feel differently about different extras. Just like you'll never get everyone to agree on whether or not CEs should exist, you'll never get everyone to agree on exactly what those extras should be.


 
Valdy
Marlin
Marlin
9,383 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by Valdy on Mar 6, 11 1:42 PM
CasualGran wrote:Dobbie and Valdy, IMO you make good points on themselves. But my discontent was the difference between what BF officially describes as being a CE and what this game really appeared to be: just a regular IHOG. Okay, it had an inbuild SG accessible from the demo, except that it was an unnecessary feature. The Hint button was help enough. Furthermore there were no wallpapers and there was no conceptart. Not that I care for those things but a CE, according to BF, should have 'em. I felt ripped off because I had been paying twice the regular game price for just an IHOG. I've send my complaint to BF this morning.


True, the SG was not necessary (for you and me - I never look at it anyway), but it will most likely be necessary for a lot of other gamers who aren´t as skilled as us.

But it didn´t actually say that the CE will include wallpaper or concept art. It was in fact left out in the CE´s description. Mind you, I never read the description, because I just care for the game itself, so I only noticed it now. Although, I must admit, what "full of exclusive extras" is supposed to mean, I do not know. There was the bonus game and there was the Strategy Guide, but I wouldn´t call it "full of exclusive extras". But no mention is made of wallpaper or concept art.

 
JoJo1212
Seahorse
Seahorse
20 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by JoJo1212 on Mar 6, 11 2:09 PM
I just thought it was rather short for a CE. I liked the art, the story was coherent (and THAT'S a nice change), interesting games, (also a nice change) and not-bad music. Just short, IMO, and I'm not sure I'm getting any smarter, I just think it was short. That's the entire extent of it. Ripped off? Maybe a little. Wiser and more cautious in the future? Certainly.

 
Valdy
Marlin
Marlin
9,383 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by Valdy on Mar 7, 11 1:40 AM
JoJo1212 wrote:I just thought it was rather short for a CE. I liked the art, the story was coherent (and THAT'S a nice change), interesting games, (also a nice change) and not-bad music. Just short, IMO, and I'm not sure I'm getting any smarter, I just think it was short. That's the entire extent of it. Ripped off? Maybe a little. Wiser and more cautious in the future? Certainly.


Hi JoJo...

Well, I don´t feel ripped off. But that´s because I never bothered with those extras like wallpaper, etc. in the first place. To me, only the bonus game is important that comes with the CE. And although I don´t ever check the SG, I like having it at hand, just in case... For example, I am glad I have the SG for "The Exiled Prince", otherwise I would never be able to find all the objects in HARD mode. LOL

And regarding the length of the game... Everybody plays games at a different speed. What you call short, I might call long. I like taking my time and have a look around, enjoying the graphics and scenery and such. I have heard other fishies saying they do the same and still they managed to finish a game in 2 hours. Can´t see how they did it, but there you go.
For me, this game had just the right length. I didn´t find it short at all, but not too long either so that I might get bored.

Happy Monday, everyone.

 

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by dobbiemijnboekje on Mar 7, 11 2:04 AM
CasualGran wrote:And yes, I tried the demo, and wrote in my comment that I was on the fence about paying the CE price for it and why I thought so.
Then another fishie told me enthousiastically about the game. That I would be missing out on this CE. And I bought it anyway, which wasn't a good choice as it would appear.

Don't listen anymore.

 
Pepper010
Stingray
Stingray
4,977 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by Pepper010 on Mar 7, 11 2:58 AM
CasualGran wrote:Well, I'm not too impressed by the quoting of my earlier posts. I still mean every word But people that have followed the entire thread could know by now, that I think ANY business should keep their official promises.

IMO they are not keeping official promises here, in the case of this CE.


"Welcome to the new normal, CREATED BY THE BFG fan base."


Of course you can always turn the whole case 180 degrees and blame your fellowfishies.


Actually, the "created by" poster is correct, in a business sense. It's called "supply and demand", and it's one of the basics of a marketplace, capitalistic economy. If enough people want and buy a certain type of product, the marketplace responds with more.

If demand for that product fizzles, that product fails in the marketplace. As LizzieK so astutely points out in her post about the costs of producing the CE "extras," the CE add-ons are extremely low cost for which the vendor doubles the price of the product.

However, the marketing for the original CEs was very attractive. Part of that marketing was the vendor's (i.e. BFG) assurances that a CE would indeed, be very special, and would not be a frequent offering. And that when one was offered, a standard version would follow within a short, specified time frame. (Also see a LizzieK post.)

Had a large enough customer base realized early on what "game was afoot" (shades of Sherlock!) and early on avoided CEs, the marketplace, i.e. BFG, would have responded with fewer CEs.

Also part of the marketing was some very sly market manipulation. In what actually is a straight capitalistic business model, BFG and its management interjected a bit of charity: i.e. you should buy these because it helps support those poor struggling artists making games.

And boy, did people respond to that bait--hook, line, and sinker. It was as though the price doubled for a product that included very little additional cost to the business and very little gain to the buyer as the CE model took on Frankensteinian porportions.

Simultaneously customers were told to buy the costlier product because the workmanship was so great and had so much more while also being told that the poor, starving developers were out busking for a few nickels and it was our duty to support them. A lot of us responded to that in the early days.






Edited on 03/07/2011 at 3:29:14 AM PST


 
Pepper010
Stingray
Stingray
4,977 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by Pepper010 on Mar 7, 11 3:25 AM
(cont'd)

Then we began to discover many things about the CEs and also the plea to help the strving artists. To begin with, the fact that BFG spent about a quarter of a million dollars to fly actors overseas to get a winter setting--with Alaska right at hand!--didn't set well with many. That didn't sound like BFG was filled with starving artists.

Next, for quite awhile the BFG banner on the front page advertised all games for 6.99 as the CEs began to churn out. It took weeks and weeks of complaints and discussions for a simple * and disclaimer about certain special editions to be added. It was a long, long haul just to get that fairly noted.

And, while asking us to support the starving artists, no one ever detailed just how much extra actual profit went to those studios. A quarter? A dollar per game? We dunno. So the charitable aspect was nebulous.

Meanwhile, many studios were producing exceptional games that sold for 6.99. In fact, as the frequency of CEs ramped up, many "regular price" games were as good as, if not better than, some of the CEs.

But, by then, the focus on CEs was complete, and the marketplace was attuned to buying them--even as they became not special, but just a more expensive game with a few freebies. I have several CEs,, and I believe I've seen a downward turn in what has been offered as extras in CEs, along with, now and then, the quality of CEs.

I remember, with many other fishies, excitedly waiting for the Dire Grove CE. It was limited--about one a year in that series--and was an event we counted down to.

A few other great CEs came along. Then CEs became the new blue plate special. Why? The marketplace, well-enticed, had been calibrated and set to purchase them. And BFG cheerleaders smacked down on those who said "hey, wait! that's not what was marketed at first!" Had the marketplace realized early on that the first CEs were just the camel's nose poking in the tent, the marketplace might have responded differently.

In stating the supply and demand basics of the marketplace, no one is blaming others and avoiding personal responsibility. They're reflecting capitalistic reality while enacting a customer's right to speak up about the product and the marketing--while also pointing out corporate responsibility.

And, if you wish to support starving artists--buy directly from them. BFG no longer lets us mention studio names because they're afraid we'll do just that. IMO.



 
Pepper010
Stingray
Stingray
4,977 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by Pepper010 on Mar 7, 11 3:38 AM
CasualGran wrote:Dobbie and Valdy, IMO you make good points on themselves. But my discontent was the difference between what BF officially describes as being a CE and what this game really appeared to be: just a regular IHOG. Okay, it had an inbuild SG accessible from the demo, except that it was an unnecessary feature. The Hint button was help enough. Furthermore there were no wallpapers and there was no conceptart. Not that I care for those things but a CE, according to BF, should have 'em. I felt ripped off because I had been paying twice the regular game price for just an IHOG. I've send my complaint to BF this morning.

And yes, I tried the demo, and wrote in my comment that I was on the fence about paying the CE price for it and why I thought so.
Then another fishie told me enthousiastically about the game. That I would be missing out on this CE. And I bought it anyway, which wasn't a good choice as it would appear.

So, you see, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you both, my discontent was this game, presented as a CE while in my eyes it was not.


Sounds like a case of personal responsibiity to me. The game's description didn't state that it included the items you wanted. Yet you bought anyway. Then, finding an older, generic CE description, you applied that to the specific game.

Then you decided the game didn't meet the advertising criteria that you cited. And you tendered your complaint.

Just as many other fishies have, and for which they've been endlessly criticized. If it's OK to complain about a specific, it's OK to complain about the larger issue that the specific is a part of.

If it's about personal responsibility, then the buyer should read and heed the game's specific description. If it's about corporate responsibilty, then the vendor should be clear and keep up to date with its statements both specifically and for the entire product marketplace.

So which is it? The lady or the tiger?

 
mcurty
Dolphin
Dolphin
6,991 Posts

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by mcurty on Mar 7, 11 12:54 PM
@Pepper010
Thanks so much for your informative posts regarding marketing, history, etc. I have learned just from reading this info. There is so much we don't know "out there".

BF will offer what they can make money on -- that's their business -- making money. I am a staunch believer in "voting" with my $$$.

 

Re:Feel ripped off with the latest CE

[Post New]by finnian1 on Mar 7, 11 1:04 PM
I was disappointed, too. It was too short and not challenging at all.

 
 
 
 
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