lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 12, 09 11:26 PM
Right! I didn't think what I'd written was correct (Canadian TV). I never thought about trying to find it on the web! Thanks! BTW I got that from the Ganondagan newsletter.

Way to the right of the forum page, by your profile, you'll see a list of ten "fish" with the highest number of posts. There is a whole bunch of fish. Everyone starts out as an anemone. The "top of the food chain" is a narwhale. As your posts increase, your avatar changes. Some are quick, some(like clownfish ) seem to take forever. It's just another way to have fun in the Pond.

 
bfgBering
Clownfish
Clownfish
851 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by bfgBering on Feb 23, 09 2:41 PM
Hello Fishies!

I just wanted to pop in and let you all know that your thoughts and feelings on this subject in both this game and The Spirit of Wandering Legend have been passed on to some of the Big Fish that work with the developers of the games we put up here on Big Fish Games, and they will try to keep this in mind in the future.

Happy gaming !

 
Bhilithinn
Guppy
Guppy
145 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by Bhilithinn on Feb 20, 10 7:18 AM
LadyCedar wrote:
lilyr wrote:Ladycedar,

Have you PM'd a Mod to look at this thread, or just to express your concerns?

Don't get me started on Hollywood!

One movie I, and the educators at the Native American historical site that is near me(they are NAs) like is BLACK ROBE. Have you seen it?


Lilyr,
I do not know how to reach a Mod about this.
And the mention of "Black Robe" makes my blood pressure rise like a rocket!
Since it is my direct Ancestors they speak of in this movie!
Another "stereotype" the assumption that all "Huron" are extinct!
Firstly, "Huron" is a french word! 16th century slang! Direct translation = Boars Head.
Was used to denote a peasant, a stupid ugly person of no redeeming value, etc.
We call ourselves "Wendat, Wyandot, Wyandotte" which means "people by the water", a much more accurate description!
And last estimate was that we number 8,000+!
So rumors of our extinction are greatly exaggerated!

The word "Iroquois" is also french for "poisonous viper". The proper name for this Confederacy is : Hodenoshonee - the people who are building the Longhouse.

THUNK! That loud noise was me falling off my soapbax and landing on my dignity!
LOL

Thank-you for reading my words!


Thank you for enlightening us. I was aware of "Wendat" instead of "Huron", but not of Hodenoshonee.

I think sometimes game developers run into the problem of assuming that certain traditions are no longer being practiced. Someone earlier mentioned the "Pyramids" and "Mount Olympus". There are actually people who still believe in and follow the Egyptian and Greek gods.

I think the funniest most recent example of this being done was Dire Grove (I loved the game though). I was rolling my eyes quite a bit at their interpretation of Celtic culture.

 
Tailteann
Clownfish
Clownfish
584 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by Tailteann on Feb 20, 10 10:54 AM
I also find this game offensive and was cringing at the depictions of the Aztec gods and how the culture was portrayed.

Thank you LadyCedar for the education you've provided in this thread. I'm only sorry these things are not already common knowledge in North America.

Edited on 02/20/2010 at 10:54:55 AM PST


 

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by Mrs_Cherokee on Mar 20, 10 2:39 PM
I am sorry that you found this game offensive. But I also saw where you posted almost the same exact thing in the other forum that was locked. I don't understand why people take offense to a game. It is a game. If you find this offensive then don't play it. I took no offense to anything that was put in the game. This entire "racism" thing has gone to far.
Another attack by the "Culture Vultures"!
This is a fairly well made game, but it seems that more and more games play upon the "savages" "shamans" etc.
How dare the programmers portray Native Peoples as primitive savages?
Promoting this kind of stereotyping offends me and my Ancestors!
How dare the word "totem" be used with such ignorance of its true meaning?
Stop stealing story lines based on misinformation of my culture please?
TY for reading my words.

This is a fairly well made game, but it seems that more and more games play upon the "savages" "shamans" etc.
How dare the programmers portray Native Peoples as primitive savages?
Promoting this kind of stereotyping offends me and my Ancestors!
How dare the word "totem" be used with such ignorance of its true meaning?
This is supposed to be somewhere in the ocean, and yet I can almost recognize the Native North American song that you can hear in the background.
Stop stealing story lines based on misinformation of my culture please?
TY for reading my words.
.
I am not trying to be disrespectful to your feelings in any means. But seriously, lets worry about other things than a game. Like for instance, what it going on in real life and NOT in a game.

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Mar 20, 10 2:50 PM
Mrs_Cherokee,

LadyCedar isn't protesting a game, she's protesting the depiction of her people. This IS going on in the real world. Many people only know Native American's by what they see in games, movies and books (fiction).

 
Bpup
Manatee
Manatee
3,891 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by Bpup on Apr 29, 11 2:39 PM
I demo'd the game because of its title. I thought that it was going to be set in America, given that that's the area where I associate Coyote because of the various native religions of the American West - not in Aztec Mexico. That, I thought, was odd and showed poor research. There were a lot of things that could have been done better with this game - though I suppose the developers do get props for trying to step out of the Celtic/Greek/Egyptian mythology rut.

I don't see the use of Coyote or other aspects of Native American religions as racist; frankly I see them as much more interesting characters to use to illuminate a belief system than using Jesus or Mary or Mohammed in a storyline - their lore is just better. Monotheistic religions tend to be rather limited in both conflict and characters. Not to mention the fact that if done well, it actually educates those whose only idea of Native American religions is from what they've learned from the movies.

Most of the games we play are developed by people who live on the other side of the world from the cultures/religions they are trying to portray in their games, and know even less about the intricacies of them than those who live in the countries where the cultures/religions are based. These folks are not serious historians; the knowledge they are going to glean is only going to be superficial at most and I would be surprised if there were no errors of depiction at all. The egregious ones, I think, should be pointed out, but sometimes we just have to let the ones that require a bit more specialized knowledge to slip by; it is just a make-believe game after all.

 
psylocibin
Guppy
Guppy
130 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by psylocibin on Feb 21, 12 8:31 PM
I was attracted to the game because I like going to Mexico and seeing the Aztec and Mayan ruins and even named a parrot Tlaloc because i liked saying the name. I loved the ruins at Xpujil (another fun name to say) and not well known but part of the connectedness those people had for communicating as one could see in the distance other pyramids (signaling took place) Any how the game was so dumb, both in its method and depiction, that I would not buy it, so if others do not buy, maybe that will alert the writers to be more intelligent and informative with their material. The truth of sacrifice that was committed at these sites can not be ignored, however, given that the Spanish Inquisition was equally horrific any reference to those aspects of Aztec practice is not an insult. The horrors of some of the games depicting gross practices in mental institutions is a mirror to the reality of shock therapy and the gross side effects of commonly prescribed drugs, so I think these games bounce off all kinds of stuff in human history. AS for games not making fun of religious icons in the present society, in fact most of the references to ghosts have some resonance to Christian myth around the virgin and her son but I guess they do not dare name them as such. With the rise of Chicano consciousness, the Frito Bandito was banned from the airwaves, but after a while one begins to suspect political correctness goes too far even as one does want respect shown to all people. There has to be room left for humor, the recognition that stereotypes exist because there is some truth to them, and that any one of us can be caricatured. All that in the balance, I am glad that people are willing to remind us of their sensibility and I hope this post helps to balance that with some recognition that the characters in that stupid game were not mean but just kind of silly.

 
 
 
 
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