shadowfax44
Orca Whale
Orca Whale
21,885 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by shadowfax44 on Jan 20, 13 12:14 PM
I agree with Calsmom and the original point of this thread. No achievements or collectibles EG?? What gives? That is one of the big parts of your games we fans look forward to.

 
gingergal
Manatee
Manatee
3,873 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by gingergal on Jan 20, 13 12:48 PM
I think you have to love the story and gameplay first before even getting to the stage of collectables or achievements (which I agree with there are some achievements in games that are bad and I hate timed elements in achievements or just auto get it for things you normal game play). But as much as I love a CE from past experience I'm not buying anymore unless it gives those extras.

Going on good story and just loving a game on it's own, I can buy the SE - same game!

I normally don't use SGs and if I did waiting for the SE and having a walkthrough open in the background, I can hit the windows key or alt + tab and get to walkthrough in one click - same as SGs that are built in and even quicker if the SG is in the main menu. So that alone to me isn't worth it.

Hallowed legends templar had collectables and samhain had achievements and both of them had it in the SE as well (which is a topic for another day)

Grim tales
is the only series which they haven't offered anything and I only have one of those games as a CE due to that.

I usually don't use wallpapers but think they should always do all that stuff anyway for the people that do.

Loads of other DEVS don't do collectables or achievements but elephant (I think apart from big fish is the only one 95% of the time does? (grim tales they don't) Other dev who does morphs doesn't always do them?) is or one of the very few who mostly do so with all their games. I'm glad that those of us who do like all the extra stuff are saying something. Hence this thread.

No collectables or achievements - no buy for me. I'll wait for the SE. (unless it comes up in a super sale before the SE comes out and has a super long good quality bonus)

Edited on 01/20/2013 at 1:03:59 PM PST


 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 1:53 PM
gingergal wrote:I think you have to love the story and gameplay first before even getting to the stage of collectables or achievements (which I agree with there are some achievements in games that are bad and I hate timed elements in achievements or just auto get it for things you normal game play). But as much as I love a CE from past experience I'm not buying anymore unless it gives those extras.

Going on good story and just loving a game on it's own, I can buy the SE - same game!

I normally don't use SGs and if I did waiting for the SE and having a walkthrough open in the background, I can hit the windows key or alt + tab and get to walkthrough in one click - same as SGs that are built in and even quicker if the SG is in the main menu. So that alone to me isn't worth it.

Hallowed legends templar had collectables and samhain had achievements and both of them had it in the SE as well (which is a topic for another day)

Grim tales
is the only series which they haven't offered anything and I only have one of those games as a CE due to that.

I usually don't use wallpapers but think they should always do all that stuff anyway for the people that do.

Loads of other DEVS don't do collectables or achievements but elephant (I think apart from big fish is the only one 95% of the time does? (grim tales they don't) Other dev who does morphs doesn't always do them?) is or one of the very few who mostly do so with all their games. I'm glad that those of us who do like all the extra stuff are saying something. Hence this thread.

No collectables or achievements - no buy for me. I'll wait for the SE. (unless it comes up in a super sale before the SE comes out and has a super long good quality bonus)


Bingo, gingergal!

 
bobbiejo2
Guppy
Guppy
186 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by bobbiejo2 on Jan 20, 13 2:00 PM
calsmom2001 wrote:
gingergal wrote:I think you have to love the story and gameplay first before even getting to the stage of collectables or achievements (which I agree with there are some achievements in games that are bad and I hate timed elements in achievements or just auto get it for things you normal game play). But as much as I love a CE from past experience I'm not buying anymore unless it gives those extras.

Going on good story and just loving a game on it's own, I can buy the SE - same game!

I normally don't use SGs and if I did waiting for the SE and having a walkthrough open in the background, I can hit the windows key or alt + tab and get to walkthrough in one click - same as SGs that are built in and even quicker if the SG is in the main menu. So that alone to me isn't worth it.

Hallowed legends templar had collectables and samhain had achievements and both of them had it in the SE as well (which is a topic for another day)

Grim tales
is the only series which they haven't offered anything and I only have one of those games as a CE due to that.

I usually don't use wallpapers but think they should always do all that stuff anyway for the people that do.

Loads of other DEVS don't do collectables or achievements but elephant (I think apart from big fish is the only one 95% of the time does? (grim tales they don't) Other dev who does morphs doesn't always do them?) is or one of the very few who mostly do so with all their games. I'm glad that those of us who do like all the extra stuff are saying something. Hence this thread.

No collectables or achievements - no buy for me. I'll wait for the SE. (unless it comes up in a super sale before the SE comes out and has a super long good quality bonus)


Bingo, gingergal!


I don't recall the achievements from the Hallowed Legends Series, but it has been a while since I played them.

However, what it comes down to is, if you like the CE buy it, if you do not-then don't. End of story.


 
mcscooby
Seahorse
Seahorse
32 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by mcscooby on Jan 20, 13 2:22 PM
Wow! Talk about a tough group! I personally really enjoyed the game for the simple reason it is a game! I was able to sit back and just have some mindless good old fashion fun! Enjoyed the story and the bonus chapter. Too bad everyone else missed the good stuff!

 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 3:22 PM
mcscooby, I don't think I've missed anything. I will certainly check out this game when it comes out as an SE. I just won't pay CE prices for a game (particularly from this dev) that doesn't have the extras that I most enjoy. JMO.

 
mcscooby
Seahorse
Seahorse
32 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by mcscooby on Jan 20, 13 3:44 PM
Still think it's too bad that everyone has missed a great game! Just my opinion - don't need all the bells and whistle, which I never find anyways! Obviously I'm not as seasoned as a lot of other players! Enjoy the game when you do get it!

 
naedebpat
Guppy
Guppy
108 Posts

To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by naedebpat on Jan 20, 13 3:48 PM
calsmom2001 wrote:Elephant Games, since "Mystery Trackers: The Void" you have been one of my favorite developers. I have passed on a few of your games, but only a few. In general, your logo on the opening screen has meant an immediate buy. However, if you are now going down the road of no achievements, no collectables, no morphing objects - in short, the road of so many other developers, then that will no longer be true. I do not buy CEs for the screensavers, wallpapers, concept art, or music, none of which matter in the least to me. I buy CEs for the REAL extras - the things that require extra programming, not just gathering up a bunch of stuff that is already a byproduct of the development process, throwing it into the game and calling it a CE. I don't even make my decision based on bonus chapter(s); by the time I get to that point, I'm often kind of tired of the game. I'll play a bonus chapter, but it's not the decision maker for me. PLEASE EG, bring back that for which you are justly famous - give us the REAL extras you have in the past. Otherwise, I'm waiting for the SE, which is what I'll be doing with this game.

I TOTALLY AGREE I ONLY BUY GAMES WITH MORPHING OR ACHIEVEMENTS

 
govegril
Stingray
Stingray
5,727 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by govegril on Jan 20, 13 3:50 PM
I am also one that will no longer buy a CE at full price unless it has achievements-
hundreds of CE's/HOPA games with the same theme and gameplay (which I am bored with by now) so there is no other incentive for me to fork out $15 for a few hours of playing.

Screensavers, wallpapers, concept art used to be given away as promotional material, I never use such things and I am often tired of the game back and throing, looking for hammers by the end and only play the bonus chapter if I have to for achievements.

If I don't buy the CE i wont buy the SE either as a rule - I only used to buy CE's as I wanted the game right now, but they are all the same now, I can just replay one I already own, or even play one I never got around to finishing.

Achievements give me a purpose to play and something to do whilst trudging through the same old villages and mansions, and looking down those wells

 
gingergal
Manatee
Manatee
3,873 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by gingergal on Jan 20, 13 3:56 PM
It's not that we won't buy the game, I really want to but it's just talking about which version of the game. I'm buying it, it just won't be the CE but the SE. Which is the same game but half the price. I'd gladly have bought the CE if it had all the extras.

But I see it as if people don't start saying something about the loss of things in CE games where they used to have things, then it's on us. If they used to do something but suddenly aren't, I think giving feedback is important for those of us who want it. As we don't want this to be a new trend. Others may have different opinions of course but I think it's important as I see it as a feedback to the devs - hence the good title of the thread.

I'm not normally this vocal on anything but as these are my favourite devs I am.


 
snapnhiss
Pufferfish
Pufferfish
1,483 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by snapnhiss on Jan 20, 13 4:16 PM
I wouldn't exactly classify the lack of morphing objects as "disturbing" but that's just me.

 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 4:50 PM
snapnhiss wrote:I wouldn't exactly classify the lack of morphing objects as "disturbing" but that's just me.


OK, how about disappointing?

 

To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by RenaissanceMom on Jan 20, 13 4:58 PM
calsmom2001 wrote:I don't even make my decision based on bonus chapter(s); by the time I get to that point, I'm often kind of tired of the game.
Ah, someone who thinks like me. I've never found bonus games that enjoyable, and I'm usually tired of the game by then anyway.

 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 5:09 PM
twinsoniclab wrote:
RenaissanceMom wrote:
calsmom2001 wrote:I don't even make my decision based on bonus chapter(s); by the time I get to that point, I'm often kind of tired of the game.
Ah, someone who thinks like me. I've never found bonus games that enjoyable, and I'm usually tired of the game by then anyway.


I know that feeling! Some games go on and on and on, which is usually good, but then you find another chapter to do.
I think it might be the ending tied up in the bonus that is tiresome. I feel I have to do it, not that I want to, to see how it ends.
But, if I may mention The Nutcracker again, the bonus was not a continuation of the main game. It was a stand-alone game, and many of us would have gladly just it! In that case, you could easy beat the main game, and stop playing, leaving the bonus for another day, week, month, year.


You know, twins, I'm going to have to play Nutcracker again. I think I was so caught up in the holiday rush that I didn't give it the appropriate amount of attention.

 
shorenuf
Dolphin
Dolphin
7,281 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by shorenuf on Jan 20, 13 5:15 PM
I ask the OP -- why buy even the SE of a lesser Elephant game? Those extra morphing items, collectibles and achievements are in the SEs of their CEs. To me we are getting less from them all around.

One of the original selling points of CEs was the extra game play -- um, these are games after all, we play them. We ask for longer games, we hasten to comment when they are short. And yet you say you are often not interested enough to bother with the bonus play, and totally disinterested in the other fluff. Why buy a CE in the first place then, unless perhaps it is for the strategy guide?

Those questions aside, I too am disenchanted with what feels so same old same old with every game we see now. Still, there is only so much that can be done with the HOPA formula, so I can't lay the blame on the devs for that. Where I do feel they fall short is sending out a barrage of games for quantity rather than quality's sake.

The earlier Elephant games were not only gorgeous to look at, they were skillfully crafted with challenging tasks, puzzles, and adventure. I for one like using my brain and the sense of accomplishment that comes with the ah ha moment. Of course, Elephant isn't the only guilty dev; our own BF Studios who gave us Madame Fate, RTR, and Drawn seems to have forgotten what a great puzzlement is like.

I know it's difficult to keep a series going, but I wasn't disappointed because Four Aces felt like The Void. I wish it had.

 

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by WolfenRaindancer on Jan 20, 13 5:21 PM
I like long game play, so a good bonus game is why I buy CEs. SGs are sometimes good, and sometimes they are not...have seen a few that weren't helpful at all. I enjoy finding extras, sometimes, but other times, they can be frustrating if you miss one, and cannot get back into the scene to get it, especially if a bonus depends upon finding them all. I won't refuse to buy a game that doesn't have them, but I will refuse to buy one that I consider too short to be worth the price I paid. Like some others, I am thinking that a bonus game of an hour or less just isn't worth doubling the price. And it is becoming quite rare to find a game that has an excellent bonus game...some just looked like throwaways, that were jumbled together to make one.

It is also true that in this day of financial uncertainty, that many are rethinking their spending. These games are fun, and we do enjoy them, but when you finish a game and feel like you wasted your money because it wasn't as good as you expected, then you do tend to become a bit more wary, and choosy, about which ones you will buy. I know I used to automatically assume that a CE was going to be great, and I would only come into these forums while waiting for the full game to download. Having been burned a few times, I now check the forums before I buy. If less money is being spent by many of us die hard hoggers, than maybe the devs, and BF will actually start listening to what we are saying...maybe. But on the other hand, we are saying different things, lol. But, in general, we do tend to agree on the main things we really want

Edited on 01/20/2013 at 5:23:45 PM PST


 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 5:27 PM
shorenuf wrote:I ask the OP -- why buy even the SE of a lesser Elephant game? Those extra morphing items, collectibles and achievements are in the SEs of their CEs. To me we are getting less from them all around.


shorenuf, I have to admit I didn't know that EG's SEs had the extras; I always bought the CE, because the games were just so good I gave into "can't wait" syndrome.

shorenuf wrote:One of the original selling points of CEs was the extra game play -- um, these are games after all, we play them. We ask for longer games, we hasten to comment when they are short. And yet you say you are often not interested enough to bother with the bonus play, and totally disinterested in the other fluff. Why buy a CE in the first place then, unless perhaps it is for the strategy guide?


I do usually play the bonus games, it's just that I wouldn't necessarily miss them (at least not as much as I miss the in-game extras). Actually, the first game I noticed the feeling of "wow, this is really l-o-o-n-g was MT: Raincliff. A GREAT game, with all the bells and whistles - I guess my attention span isn't all it could be. Probably I should be more willing to stop playing, go to bed, and pick it up another day.

shorenuf wrote:I know it's difficult to keep a series going, but I wasn't disappointed because Four Aces felt like The Void. I wish it had.






 
shadowfax44
Orca Whale
Orca Whale
21,885 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by shadowfax44 on Jan 20, 13 7:39 PM
mcscooby wrote:Wow! Talk about a tough group! I personally really enjoyed the game for the simple reason it is a game! I was able to sit back and just have some mindless good old fashion fun! Enjoyed the story and the bonus chapter. Too bad everyone else missed the good stuff!
Hey mcscooby - I am only speaking for myself here but I totally enjoyed this game. It was a very fun game, good story, etc... but I did miss the collectibles and achievements. They are what keeps EG at the top of my list of fave devs - they USUALLY give you those fun extras that keep their games a cut above the rest. I missed them.

 
Valdy
Marlin
Marlin
9,383 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by Valdy on Jan 21, 13 12:13 AM
I used to buy CEs because the demo had me enchanted right from the beginning, and I was just dying to continue right there and then. And I bought the CE because from what I have seen of the main game I hoped that the bonus game was also worth having.

To 99% that wasn't the case. I don't know how many times I have been disappointed with the bonus game, which used to be the main reason for getting the CE in the first place.

Great graphics? Great gameplay? Engaging storyline? All these are part of the SE as well. So why would I want to buy the CE? Not necessarily for the bonus game, and certainly not for the SG, which I never use, nor the wallpaper or screensaver.

I would buy the CE for extras in the gameplay that I would not see in the SE. Elephant Games used to be famous for adding extras into the game which didn't appear in the SE. (But for some reason, they have now changed this and added those extras also to the SE. So why buy their CEs any longer?)
And those extras were the reason I bought the CE, because even though I can do without achievements (especially if they are for silly things like: found 3 objects in 5 seconds), and I can do without looking for morphing objects or finding collectables, I love the fact that I have those extras in my game.

As I said, to me most bonus games are just a disappointment. However, I love the ones from Blue Tea Games, because these developers add a bonus game that is completely different from the main story: "Dark Parables: The Red Riding Hood Sisters" had "The Boy who cried Wolf", I think it was called, as their bonus game. That is the kind of bonus game I love to see. Something entirely unrelated to the main game, and a nicely done extra little story added.

Edited on 01/21/2013 at 2:16:25 AM PST


 
Faylyn
Minnow
Minnow
259 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by Faylyn on Jan 21, 13 12:58 AM
I agree with most all the comments concerning CEs. I definitely want morphing and achievements in the games I play. For me, the best example of a perfect CE is Nutcracker. I have played it 3 times now including the Bonus Chapter and I have never played a game more than once. I finally found all 25 dolls and looking for them was part of the fun of the game. The graphics, music, storyline, H0S were all top of the line.

I'm not buying Death Pages: Ghost Library CE and may not buy it as a SE either but might as a DD.

EG needs to continue with games like Nutcracker. I don't think Nutcracker can ever be topped by any developer but at the very least EG should keep all their games on the same level.


 
 
 
 
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