Patzy140
Clownfish
Clownfish
528 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by Patzy140 on Sep 22, 14 4:07 AM
Thank you so much Vlania for the time, effort and thought you put into writing this. It echoes what so many of us are feeling, and I really hope that some notice is taken now.

Patsy

 
FrankieKY
Guppy
Guppy
103 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by FrankieKY on Sep 22, 14 5:37 AM
I agree and support this message. Thank you to all who worked on developing a constructive, thoughtful and accurate assessment of the serious problem that MC and the other games have.

Big Fish should be grateful that its customers (YES, that is what we are!) are so loyal that they have and continue to take considerable time to try and fix the game. The great majority of the time a customer is dissatisfied, he/she will stop doing business with the company and tell his/her friends about their bad experience.

Not the customers of MC, we try, and try, and try to give feedback so Big Fish will fix the problem and we can continue to be customers. Please listen Big Fish to your loyal customers.

Frankie

 
guppies56
Clownfish
Clownfish
798 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by guppies56 on Sep 22, 14 6:05 AM
With respect Vlania, this really isn't about sprinters and marathon runners, you mention in your letter that the sprinters have been appeased, well I was one of the so-called sprinters who packed the game in after almost reaching the end of level 44 as I literally couldn't face anymore of the content, 3 Books of Dancing Shadows, 3 Signs of the Rocky Throne all requiring numerous visits to the Binding Egg which was mind blowingly tedious.

The whole problem with the game is lack of imagination and conveyor belt updates meant for nothing other than to deplete your inventory.

The cost of crafting, opening new HOS's and ZZ's has increased with the levels as with most games and is to be expected, but most games the rewards become greater the further along into the game you get, with MC there are no rewards for progressing, so in all honesty what is the point of playing a game which produces nothing more than conveyor belt updates and offers nothing in return other than montony and being able to say "I finished level 44"

There is no Big Deal in completing an update, there is no Feel Good Factor there is no Kudos, it's hardly master mind, so therefore they have to develope some interest for those on higher levels other than visiting that wretched Binding Egg which would send a hamster to sleep and they enjoy running around in circles on a never ending wheel.

The hard work that goes into the gold chests, months of HOS's to acquire the food to feed the pets, you finally get there and you think whoop whoop i've done it and the final reward is a "Pirate Avatar" wowee an Avatar, it should have been 20,000 coins or 50 diamonds and the Avatar should have been the by product of winning the main prize.

Sorry to contradict you and it really is meant in the politest way, but I promise you, this is about montony for *all* who play at higher levels whether it be a sprinter or a marathon runner as I don't see the sprinters in the forum complaining about the next update not yet having arrived. It is better to wait patiently for quality updates than to be bored silly by conveyor belt updates which please nobody.



 
NoFishToday
Salmon
Salmon
2,712 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by NoFishToday on Sep 22, 14 7:01 AM
I just wanted to add that this letter is for all BF FTPs, not just MC. The problems vary from game to game, but the overall message is the same. BF, find a way to give us an enjoyable creative game that we will be happy to support financially, rather than to coerce us into visiting the bank to spend real money so that the marathon runners will too turn into sprinters. I spend money when I am enjoying what I am doing, but as much as I feel everytime I see that Binding Egg, I will not spend money to get through it just because it was done as a covert way of trying to get me to do so.

In other forums (AK) there are plenty of whiners for updates, sometimes the very same day we get one. In ART, people have not seen an update since June. It really was impossible to address everything in this letter, meant to encompass all FTPs, so the main takeaway....players are not happy with the way these games are being manipulated by the powers that be. We are not as naïve as they might think, we are well aware of what is being done behind the scenes. I'll remind you all once again to take a little trip over to the AK forum and read the thread Fungus Hut.

Our intent in this "Call to Arms" is a wake-up call to BigFish, before every one of these FTPs is driven down the road of ruin.

 
EOTR
Minnow
Minnow
213 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by EOTR on Sep 22, 14 7:20 AM
Guppies,

Thank you so much for your post. I wanted to express the same thing, but you said it much better than I could have. I've played as both sprinter and marathoner, and there is no joy for either at the high levels. Just total tedium.

Jhuppie

 
guppies56
Clownfish
Clownfish
798 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by guppies56 on Sep 22, 14 7:23 AM
NoFishToday wrote:I just wanted to add that this letter is for all BF FTPs, not just MC. The problems vary from game to game, but the overall message is the same. BF, find a way to give us an enjoyable creative game that we will be happy to support financially, rather than to coerce us into visiting the bank to spend real money so that the marathon runners will too turn into sprinters. I spend money when I am enjoying what I am doing, but as much as I feel everytime I see that Binding Egg, I will not spend money to get through it just because it was done as a covert way of trying to get me to do so.

In other forums (AK) there are plenty of whiners for updates, sometimes the very same day we get one. In ART, people have not seen an update since June. It really was impossible to address everything in this letter, meant to encompass all FTPs, so the main takeaway....players are not happy with the way these games are being manipulated by the powers that be. We are not as naïve as they might think, we are well aware of what is being done behind the scenes. I'll remind you all once again to take a little trip over to the AK forum and read the thread Fungus Hut.

Our intent in this "Call to Arms" is a wake-up call to BigFish, before every one of these FTPs is driven down the road of ruin.


I understand what your aim was and perhaps it's a little too far reaching to try to amend all FTP games in one move as in most things in life (people included) one size doesen't fit all and what happens in other forums (moaning about updates) doesen't happen in all forums and that's just one example of "one size doesen't fit all"
Rome wasn't built in a day, if you are really trying to get through to the devs/Elephant/BFG then you should take small steps, i'm sure they'd be happy to address one problem at a time but by being inclusive of all FTP games they will see it as a gigantic yawn and too vague and drawn out to even bother to see where the disillusionment is coming from. You have to understand that first and foremost they are seeing money, it's the players who want to see pleasure for that money so therefore you should aim for the market you are most interested rather than diversify and confuse the issue

 
ChestnutHeights
Salmon
Salmon
2,542 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by ChestnutHeights on Sep 22, 14 7:24 AM
guppies56 wrote:With respect Vlania, this really isn't about sprinters and marathon runners, you mention in your letter that the sprinters have been appeased, well I was one of the so-called sprinters who packed the game in after almost reaching the end of level 44 as I literally couldn't face anymore of the content, 3 Books of Dancing Shadows, 3 Signs of the Rocky Throne all requiring numerous visits to the Binding Egg which was mind blowingly tedious.

The whole problem with the game is lack of imagination and conveyor belt updates meant for nothing other than to deplete your inventory.

The cost of crafting, opening new HOS's and ZZ's has increased with the levels as with most games and is to be expected, but most games the rewards become greater the further along into the game you get, with MC there are no rewards for progressing, so in all honesty what is the point of playing a game which produces nothing more than conveyor belt updates and offers nothing in return other than montony and being able to say "I finished level 44"

There is no Big Deal in completing an update, there is no Feel Good Factor there is no Kudos, it's hardly master mind, so therefore they have to develope some interest for those on higher levels other than visiting that wretched Binding Egg which would send a hamster to sleep and they enjoy running around in circles on a never ending wheel.

The hard work that goes into the gold chests, months of HOS's to acquire the food to feed the pets, you finally get there and you think whoop whoop i've done it and the final reward is a "Pirate Avatar" wowee an Avatar, it should have been 20,000 coins or 50 diamonds and the Avatar should have been the by product of winning the main prize.

Sorry to contradict you and it really is meant in the politest way, but I promise you, this is about montony for *all* who play at higher levels whether it be a sprinter or a marathon runner as I don't see the sprinters in the forum complaining about the next update not yet having arrived. It is better to wait patiently for quality updates than to be bored silly by conveyor belt updates which please nobody.




Perfectly stated. It's about the monotony, lack of creativity and the push into in-game purchases that irks me. And this is what is happening in most of the FTP games that I play.

 
guppies56
Clownfish
Clownfish
798 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by guppies56 on Sep 22, 14 7:27 AM
EOTR wrote:Guppies,

Thank you so much for your post. I wanted to express the same thing, but you said it much better than I could have. I've played as both sprinter and marathoner, and there is no joy for either at the high levels. Just total tedium.

Jhuppie


Thank you EOTR

 
rosiebvt
Manatee
Manatee
4,210 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by rosiebvt on Sep 22, 14 7:29 AM
guppies,
I'd like to clarify what I personally meant by referring to sprinters and marathoners. I wasn't referring to the amount of time spent to finish a level, but rather to the commitment to the game. Marathoners in my book are those of us who make the rounds, do the work, slog through the hard areas, and generally don't complain about taking the time to get somewhere. We've earned our way to the higher levels, or for those playing the game a short time, that's what we intend to do. A sprinter to me is someone who plays for as long as it's easy and you make visible progress, but then drops out when it gets slower. That's a different style of playing, and this game is not one to keep sprinters happy.

I said marathoners don't complain about the effort involved, but we do and should complain about boredom and frustration. I would much rather do the old bow figurine and take days for that, than I would having to get 6 blood lotuses and then get 4 of something else while taking the same number of days to complete. Boredom causes frustration, but also causing frustration is the drop rate for almost anything, especially stamps. If stamps are required for a regular quest, they should be part of the find path, period. Hard work won't get you anywhere if you can't get what you need to continue. That's why there's a find path in the first place.

I don't know that any of us would be upset about someone who finishes new content quickly, I'd like to be one of those myself. That shows you put the time in to collect the resources, do the work, and slog through probably more HOS in total because you don't know what you're going to need. For myself, I'm running behind and mainly do what I can using only the find path and limited rounds to make progress. In my book, you can't have gotten to level 44 without being a marathoner.
Rose

 
FudgeChi
Flounder
Flounder
2,380 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by FudgeChi on Sep 22, 14 7:38 AM
Ah, I see more now then what you mean by a marathoner. To me that wasn't clear in the letter at all. I was going to say I'm a sprinter when I'm not then now that rosie has clarified what she personally meant.
I put a LOT of work in each day and enjoy doing that more than the updates simply because I don't want to be MADE to go to the same 2 scenes 48 times I believe it was in the last update. All that's needed are more creative updates including making use of the gift boxes which have been stuck there forever and the use of the Coming Soon button, which doesn't appear to be coming anytime soon!

 
guppies56
Clownfish
Clownfish
798 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by guppies56 on Sep 22, 14 7:42 AM
rosiebvt wrote:guppies,
I'd like to clarify what I personally meant by referring to sprinters and marathoners. I wasn't referring to the amount of time spent to finish a level, but rather to the commitment to the game. Marathoners in my book are those of us who make the rounds, do the work, slog through the hard areas, and generally don't complain about taking the time to get somewhere. We've earned our way to the higher levels, or for those playing the game a short time, that's what we intend to do. A sprinter to me is someone who plays for as long as it's easy and you make visible progress, but then drops out when it gets slower. That's a different style of playing, and this game is not one to keep sprinters happy.

I said marathoners don't complain about the effort involved, but we do and should complain about boredom and frustration. I would much rather do the old bow figurine and take days for that, than I would having to get 6 blood lotuses and then get 4 of something else while taking the same number of days to complete. Boredom causes frustration, but also causing frustration is the drop rate for almost anything, especially stamps. If stamps are required for a regular quest, they should be part of the find path, period. Hard work won't get you anywhere if you can't get what you need to continue. That's why there's a find path in the first place.

I don't know that any of us would be upset about someone who finishes new content quickly, I'd like to be one of those myself. That shows you put the time in to collect the resources, do the work, and slog through probably more HOS in total because you don't know what you're going to need. For myself, I'm running behind and mainly do what I can using only the find path and limited rounds to make progress. In my book, you can't have gotten to level 44 without being a marathoner.
Rose


Rosie the original letter openly states that BFG/Elephant/devs are trying to 'appease' the sprinters therefore hinder the marathon runners. This isn't appeasing anyone whether they sprint through an update or take their time they still *all* have to go through the same mind numbing monotony and it's that, that's driving people away, not the struggle but the monotony pure and simple. They've turned MC from a fun and beautiful game to something that quite frankly induces the mind into a coma and leaves you in effect brain dead, dying of complete boredom.

 
guppies56
Clownfish
Clownfish
798 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by guppies56 on Sep 22, 14 8:10 AM
Rosie I have just re-read the letter here is a portion:

We, respectfully, request of you to code some updates for the marathon runners, as well as the sprinters. Haven't they been appeased enough for now with their demands for fast and faster updates?

There is no mistaking what this means, those on earlier levels are not being given their own special updates, the sprinters means exactly what I thought it meant, it's glaringly obvious that you are blaming those who finish updates quickly for the monotonous conveyor updates that they're throwing at us.

Nobody in MC complains about the length of time an update takes, quality is far better than quantity, yes people do get excited when they think an update may be due, but there is a world of difference between excitement and moaning. We *all* want, sprinters and marathoon runners the same thing.
You might just as well have said the sprinters are moaning that the snails are taking too long and delaying updates, which would be total and utter codswallop.

 
FudgeChi
Flounder
Flounder
2,380 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by FudgeChi on Sep 22, 14 8:24 AM
guppies56 wrote:Rosie I have just re-read the letter here is a portion:

We, respectfully, request of you to code some updates for the marathon runners, as well as the sprinters. Haven't they been appeased enough for now with their demands for fast and faster updates?

There is no mistaking what this means, those on earlier levels are not being given their own special updates, the sprinters means exactly what I thought it meant, it's glaringly obvious that you are blaming those who finish updates quickly for the monotonous conveyor updates that they're throwing at us.

Nobody in MC complains about the length of time an update takes, quality is far better than quantity, yes people do get excited when they think an update may be due, but there is a world of difference between excitement and moaning. We *all* want, sprinters and marathoon runners the same thing.
You might just as well have said the sprinters are moaning that the snails are taking too long and delaying updates, which would be total and utter codswallop.


You're right, guppies, I've just been re-reading and re-reading to make sure I understood and there is no mistaking what it means. So, as a sprinter after all, I'd much. much rather wait for a decent and quality update than more of the same conveyor belt ones which the last 3 at least have been.

 
NoFishToday
Salmon
Salmon
2,712 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by NoFishToday on Sep 22, 14 8:25 AM
guppies, I think some things can get misconstrued or lost in translation. In other forums, they are whining for updates, perhaps not here, but I think the real message is "give more time and thought to the updates". And really the point is not sprinters VS marathoners, the point is keeping (and getting) players who will in the end spend much more money than those who play a bit, drop some fast cash, and then leave when the going gets rough. I think that is what is meant by "sprinters'.

 
silver_hawk
Dolphin
Dolphin
6,532 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by silver_hawk on Sep 22, 14 8:27 AM
I have to agree with EVERYTHING that Guppies stated.

It's not the costs, those can be controlled with repeated visits to HOS, selling things, feeding pets, sending airships, limiting playing dice, limiting Wheel spins.

It's not what is even asked for in quests. It is the monotony of repeated visits to the same HOS over and over...etc, in order to complete ONE quest. 30 trips to any HOS for any item(s) required for ONE quest is way too much. Plus it's always the same items over and over from quest to quest.

There is no reason to require the Immortal Treasure to be used in Three chests and for two of the chest you need two Immortal Treasures. There are so many items that are ignored. Why couldn't they use Cannonballs (for example) in the new chests. After all I had 300 of them until I sold off all but 100.

Then there's the achievements. You can't control getting some of them. It's all left to chance. Take the Treasure Hunter achievement for example:
Chance to get enough pet food from countless hours of HOS searches.
Chance that you get a gold chest from feeding the pets.
It takes 100 gold chests to reach the final achievement. It takes me 12 hours to get 100 bags of pet food and they are randomly distributed from HOS. I feed the best pets for gold but get a gold chest every 3-4 days. That equates to nearly a year (plus) to get the achievement. This is very discouraging. You always feel like the finish line is moved farther and farther away. You feel like "what's the point - I'll never reach the goal line".

Sprinter or Marathoner however you want to define it, the point is that the game is getting very boring for some of us. There are no REAL rewards for all the efforts we've put into all the hours of HOS after HOS. Nothing to look forward to.

Silver Hawk

 
guppies56
Clownfish
Clownfish
798 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by guppies56 on Sep 22, 14 8:30 AM
NoFishToday wrote:guppies, I think some things can get misconstrued or lost in translation. In other forums, they are whining for updates, perhaps not here, but I think the real message is "give more time and thought to the updates". And really the point is not sprinters VS marathoners, the point is keeping (and getting) players who will in the end spend much more money than those who play a bit, drop some fast cash, and then leave when the going gets rough. I think that is what is meant by "sprinters'.


So in effect this wasn't a real complaint about MC or any other game being sent to the devs/BFG/Elephant **** a moan about FTP games in general?

 
guppies56
Clownfish
Clownfish
798 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by guppies56 on Sep 22, 14 8:41 AM
guppies56 wrote:
NoFishToday wrote:guppies, I think some things can get misconstrued or lost in translation. In other forums, they are whining for updates, perhaps not here, but I think the real message is "give more time and thought to the updates". And really the point is not sprinters VS marathoners, the point is keeping (and getting) players who will in the end spend much more money than those who play a bit, drop some fast cash, and then leave when the going gets rough. I think that is what is meant by "sprinters'.


So in effect this wasn't a real complaint about MC or any other game being sent to the devs/BFG/Elephant **** a moan about FTP games in general?


I have no idea why they would censor an everyday word and apologise to anyone reading as it wasn't a swear word or offensive it was merely a three letter conjuction akin to 'and' beginning with a 'b' ending with a 't' apologies to anybody who may have thought I was being disrespectful.

 

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by tigress1_2u on Sep 22, 14 10:14 AM
guppies56 wrote:

I have no idea why they would censor an everyday word and apologise to anyone reading as it wasn't a swear word or offensive it was merely a three letter conjuction akin to 'and' beginning with a 'b' ending with a 't' apologies to anybody who may have thought I was being disrespectful.



That depends on how many t's ...one or two that you had put in there

Edited on 09/22/2014 at 10:15:43 AM PST


 
bfgMurrumbidgee
Moderator
Moderator
1,338 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by bfgMurrumbidgee on Sep 22, 14 10:49 AM
G'day,

I wanted to take a moment to drop in and connect with our free to play community in light of the threads that have been started.

On behalf of the moderators, thank you for taking the time to construct such a detailed and well-thought out list of feedback and suggestions. I am certain that the developers appreciate your passion and dedication, as much as our team does.

We do ask that all posts adhere to the Forum rules at all times, to ensure that we can continue to have constructive and positive discussions.

Each game and each developer is different and the changes and improvements that are able to be made can vary. These posts have been shared with the appropriate parties for further consideration, and we truly appreciate the feedback we receive.

bfgMurrumbidgee

 
Vlania
Angelfish
Angelfish
1,160 Posts

Re:An Urgent Letter to Big Fish Games

[Post New]by Vlania on Sep 22, 14 11:09 AM
Hi everyone, in the weeks it took to gather the information, collate it, organize it, write and rewrite this letter, we edited and condensed, trying to make this concise and represent 16 games and their forums. Not an easy task. Guppies, I think you may be right about trying to do too much. That was all my idea, I didn't want to leave anyone out. So many of the original ideas were put to the side and it killed me every time. We tried not to offend players but I see now that we failed at this. Trying to get across the main problems, which a lot of you are reinforcing, we failed in our word choices. I apologize for that. Big Fish is targeting the people who are playing the levels easily by buying their way through the hard parts, we named them "sprinters". As opposed to those who put in the work to get through the levels, we named them "marathon runners". The last thing I wanted was a fight, causing people not to act. My hope is that people will take the sections that they agree with and send them to the people that can fix this. That's all I wanted to do. Fix it. Keep the forum whole.

Anessa

 
 
 
 
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