LadyCedar
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
19 Posts

Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by LadyCedar on Feb 10, 09 8:07 PM
Another attack by the "Culture Vultures"!
This is a fairly well made game, but it seems that more and more games play upon the "savages" "shamans" etc.
How dare the programmers portray Native Peoples as primitive savages?
Promoting this kind of stereotyping offends me and my Ancestors!
How dare the word "totem" be used with such ignorance of its true meaning?
Stop stealing story lines based on misinformation of my culture please?
TY for reading my words.

 
Mojave_Rain
Shark
Shark
10,693 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by Mojave_Rain on Feb 10, 09 8:41 PM
I can only assume that the developers thought that Native American beliefs are something of the far distant past like that of Mount Olympus and the Pyramids rather than a living religion, which it is.

That said when I played the demo I have to admit I wondered just what kind of furor would have arisen had the game portrayed Jesus Christ, Mohammed and Moses talking in silly voices and trivializing/misrepresenting aspects of their respective religions.

Would have made the Dangerous Girlies uproar look pretty tame eh?


 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 10, 09 9:13 PM
Hi LadyCedar and welcome.

I'm not a Native American, nor have I played this game. I AM a big supporter of NA arts, culture and education. Hear, hear!

 
prpldva
Zebrafish
Zebrafish
48,548 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by prpldva on Feb 10, 09 10:00 PM
Hi Lady Cedar and Mojave Rain-

I have not played this yet, but if it were offensive to my culture and background, I would certainly contact the developers and Big Fish.

I wish it were in my power to correct the issues and I'm sorry you were offended.

My grandfather was part-Kaskaskian. He unfortunately passed when my mother was very young. I would have loved the opportunity to learn more about that part of my heritage from him.

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 10, 09 10:30 PM
Welcome Mojave_Rain.

Prpl has a good idea.

And you, MR, make some excellent points.

 
Mojave_Rain
Shark
Shark
10,693 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by Mojave_Rain on Feb 11, 09 5:40 AM
Thanks for the welcome Prpldva and Lilyr : )

 
Qwyn
Sea Anemone
Sea Anemone
2 Posts

Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by Qwyn on Feb 11, 09 7:42 PM
LadyCedar wrote:How dare the programmers portray Native Peoples as primitive savages?


Hi LadyCedar. I'm curious to learn more about this. I didn't see the same kind of portrayal that you did so hopefully you can enlighten me.

The characters do refer to human sacrifices a couple times. But from what I can tell, the game is based specifically on Aztec mythology and not living Native American religions. The names of the gods are all Aztec. And as far as I know (which isn't a whole lot) human sacrifices were a central part of their religious beliefs. Is there something I'm missing?

LadyCedar wrote:How dare the word "totem" be used with such ignorance of its true meaning?


Can't argue against that though.

Please don't take this as me trying to be argumentative. I just want to better understand.

Thanks!

 
mirror75
Lobster
Lobster
93 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by mirror75 on Feb 11, 09 8:06 PM
I didn't buy this game. I found it's cheesy character portrayals and narrative extremely annoying. I can see where it could be considered offensive, although I didn't think of that right away. What was slightly offensive to me was the "Casino God" or whatever he was, constantly referring to the main characters as "babe' etc.

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 11, 09 8:19 PM
Welcome Qwn and Mirror,

Coyotes show up in a lot of Southwestern storytelling. Most Native American history is passed down through storytelling. I'm not sure, but I think that Aztecs are still with us (although not practising human sacrifice).

 
NONONONONO
Manatee
Manatee
4,085 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by NONONONONO on Feb 11, 09 8:36 PM
Well, I am half Native American, registered, card carrying etc. And I am going to check the game out for an hour. I will leave my opinion until then.

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 11, 09 11:46 PM
I'll be interested in your opinion NoNo. LadyCedar also has a similar thread :The Spirit of Wandering. You might be interested in those comments, too.

Edited on 02/12/2009 at 12:02:07 AM PST


 
LadyCedar
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
19 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by LadyCedar on Feb 12, 09 9:38 PM
I live by my traditional beliefs.
Our stories are sacred, told at certain times of year only.
Yes, Coyote stories are told in many Native Nations cultural traditions.
But WHY should game makers take and twist our stories for personal gain?
Most folks, I am sad to say, don't know any better, and Hollywood has portrayed us in such a way that folks don't learn the truth of us. Games like this promote "stereotyping", which simply increases the lack of true understanding between my people and "mainstream society".
I certainly hope that our children will not attempt to learn our culture from games like this!

Casinos and lack of respect for women IS NOT a part of my Ancestral Ways.

Also, when I was teaching a workshop at the local College, I was asked by a Foreign Exchange student if we have a "pantheon of Gods, similar to the Greeks and Romans" and asked if we "worships animal spirits as Gods"?
The answers were/ are NO and NO.

The word "totem" is a mispronunciation of the Algonquin word "do-dem" which loosely translates to " the clay/earth of..." , which is how I describe my CLAN.

Out of respect for other peoples cultures, I do not tell their stories, as in my ignorance I may cause offense or hurt, or simply, again in ignorance, may perpetuate an image that is less than honest.

How do we tell Big Fish games that this is not acceptable?

And yes, descendants of the Aztec and Mayan people are still around, I cannot comment on their culture, as I do not know it well.

To all who responded to my original post, I thank-you for replying, and for your thoughtfulness regarding this issue!

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 12, 09 9:44 PM
Ladycedar,

Have you PM'd a Mod to look at this thread, or just to express your concerns?

Don't get me started on Hollywood!

One movie I, and the educators at the Native American historical site that is near me(they are NAs) like is BLACK ROBE. Have you seen it?

 
LadyCedar
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
19 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by LadyCedar on Feb 12, 09 9:55 PM
Mojave_Rain wrote:I can only assume that the developers thought that Native American beliefs are something of the far distant past like that of Mount Olympus and the Pyramids rather than a living religion, which it is.

That said when I played the demo I have to admit I wondered just what kind of furor would have arisen had the game portrayed Jesus Christ, Mohammed and Moses talking in silly voices and trivializing/misrepresenting aspects of their respective religions.


Mojave Rain,
I thank-you for making the point so eloquently!

 
LadyCedar
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
19 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by LadyCedar on Feb 12, 09 10:07 PM
lilyr wrote:Ladycedar,

Have you PM'd a Mod to look at this thread, or just to express your concerns?

Don't get me started on Hollywood!

One movie I, and the educators at the Native American historical site that is near me(they are NAs) like is BLACK ROBE. Have you seen it?


Lilyr,
I do not know how to reach a Mod about this.
And the mention of "Black Robe" makes my blood pressure rise like a rocket!
Since it is my direct Ancestors they speak of in this movie!
Another "stereotype" the assumption that all "Huron" are extinct!
Firstly, "Huron" is a french word! 16th century slang! Direct translation = Boars Head.
Was used to denote a peasant, a stupid ugly person of no redeeming value, etc.
We call ourselves "Wendat, Wyandot, Wyandotte" which means "people by the water", a much more accurate description!
And last estimate was that we number 8,000+!
So rumors of our extinction are greatly exaggerated!

The word "Iroquois" is also french for "poisonous viper". The proper name for this Confederacy is : Hodenoshonee - the people who are building the Longhouse.

THUNK! That loud noise was me falling off my soapbax and landing on my dignity!
LOL

Thank-you for reading my words!

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 12, 09 10:15 PM
Ladycedar,

I'm surprised you feel that way about Black Robe. As I said, the educators, who are Native Americans and Mostly Iroquois(can't spell the correct word) feel it is accurate and balanced (except for the midget shaman).

I liked it because it portrayed NAs as PEOPLE -- both good and bad. Not the Hollywood stereotypes of either all bad(40s, 50s, 60s,) or all saints (ala Dances With Wolves).

I'll PM you re how to get in touch with a mod.

lilyr

 
LadyCedar
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
19 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by LadyCedar on Feb 12, 09 10:26 PM
Please read my last post regarding the word "Iroquois".

I agree that we have been portrayed as one of 2 poles "bloodthirsty savages" or "the noble savage"
And just like everyone, the truth is nearer the middle.
The majority of my people that I have discussed this movie with also dislike it. I think it is time we tell our own stories, from our own perspective.
May I suggest a PBS Miniseries of docu-dramas called "Daughters Of The Country"?
Another movie called (if memory serves) "Dream Keeper".
Also a short lived children s TV series starring Rufus Goodstriker called "Walking with Grandfather"?
Will suggest more as I remember them, if you like?

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 12, 09 10:46 PM
Nia weh for the suggestions. Have you seen Dance Me Outside? Summer on the rez written, acted, filmed by NAs. Canada has NPTN--native peoples television network. I saw some of it when I was in Banff in 2007. They have some wonderful short videos --igloo-making, interviews with contemporary fashion designers and beaders--all in native language with English subtitles. They also had some native-themed movies. Good stuff!

Sorry about the " I" word. As I said, I can't spell the correct term(at least not without looking at it!)

What types of games do you like? I love HOGs, so was sorry to read that these were offensive. I won't even demo them.

Hey! Did you morph?

 
lilyr
Marlin
Marlin
8,137 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by lilyr on Feb 12, 09 10:50 PM
You did!

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR MORPH!

 
LadyCedar
Jellyfish
Jellyfish
19 Posts

Re:Racism in an otherwise good game

[Post New]by LadyCedar on Feb 12, 09 11:04 PM
OK, when did I become a shapeshifter? ROTFL
I am such a newby here,what is the significance to "Morphing"?
I love the search and find games.
Actually the TV Network is APTN Aboriginal Peoples Television Network and you can find them online.
If memory serves Gary Farmer is the CEO, Gary was an actor, his role in "Pow-wow Highway" is quite memorable, in fact, that is the movie that he tells a Coyote Story!
Nowa Goha for speaking in a language so close to mine! Makes me feel quite at home here.

 
 
 
 
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