calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 6:43 AM
Elephant Games, since "Mystery Trackers: The Void" you have been one of my favorite developers. I have passed on a few of your games, but only a few. In general, your logo on the opening screen has meant an immediate buy. However, if you are now going down the road of no achievements, no collectables, no morphing objects - in short, the road of so many other developers, then that will no longer be true. I do not buy CEs for the screensavers, wallpapers, concept art, or music, none of which matter in the least to me. I buy CEs for the REAL extras - the things that require extra programming, not just gathering up a bunch of stuff that is already a byproduct of the development process, throwing it into the game and calling it a CE. I don't even make my decision based on bonus chapter(s); by the time I get to that point, I'm often kind of tired of the game. I'll play a bonus chapter, but it's not the decision maker for me. PLEASE EG, bring back that for which you are justly famous - give us the REAL extras you have in the past. Otherwise, I'm waiting for the SE, which is what I'll be doing with this game.

 
_misschrissi_
Minnow
Minnow
232 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by _misschrissi_ on Jan 20, 13 6:51 AM
Me too! I do enjoy having a bonus chapter, if it's exploring new areas (rather than rehashing places I've already been), but I've never had any interest in screensavers or wallpapers, and as for "concept art", I really don't need to see how the artists (talented as they are) drew the game!

I know some people do like all this stuff, but it'd be interesting if BFG ran a simple survey of gamers to ask "Do you find screensavers, wallpaper and concept art useful? Yes or No". Would be interested to see the results!

 
CiChDa
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,972 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by CiChDa on Jan 20, 13 7:40 AM
Boy, Calsmom and _misschrissi, you guys said it well. I agree with you.

I also wish somehow we could find out if the game is jam packed' with HO's and very little adventure. I like the HO's, but not when they are used just to lenghten the game or add on a chapter so they can call it a CE.

 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 7:56 AM
Good point CiChDa - I too like HO scenes, but a good balance between them and adventure is important to me.

 

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by beadaddict on Jan 20, 13 7:57 AM
I agree will all of you. I love the morphing objects and the real extras that used to be in their games. I don't have any use for wallpapers etc. I buy the games to play the games not for the other "fluff".

 

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by Bigfishette on Jan 20, 13 8:04 AM
I think Mystery of the Ancients: Curse of the Blackwater set the bar high. Now that game was CE quality. Am gettiing kinda picky about what I want in a CE these days.

 
gingergal
Manatee
Manatee
3,873 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by gingergal on Jan 20, 13 8:20 AM
Love your petition I'll sign it. Sad that I have to as never thought I would with these developers. Personally I think they are shortening their games, not putting as much extras into some of them. I think they've seen other devs do this and get away with it so maybe they think they can cut corners as well.

I agree with you on all aspects apart from bonus game as they need to be put long quality bonus in a CE and if no one want to play it they don't need to but it should be there. Same with collectables or achievements, if you don't want to play them you don't need to.

I will say that they never put many HOS in a game or pad them out, never seen them do this. I started loving elephant as I don't like many HOS, so because they never have many (some games more than others but still not many) and never repeat them along with their graphics why they became my favourite DEV.

They also always tie up their up ending *black aisle was maybe the worst as they said "in the bonus we will do this"*. I've never worried with them on that score.

I'm so glad people are standing up and saying this as they do listen and if no one did they would continue to try and cut corners and do the same as some other DEVS.

Edited on 01/20/2013 at 8:23:33 AM PST


 
gwenofala
Minnow
Minnow
245 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by gwenofala on Jan 20, 13 8:27 AM
I agree, if there are no achievements or collectables very rarely will I purchase a CE, I too shall wait for the SE . The wallpapers, soundtrack and bonus chapters I can do without !

 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 8:36 AM
Wow, seems like a struck a nerve! Hope the devs are listening!

BTW, I didn't mean to imply that CEs should not include a bonus game (I definitely think that for twice the price, they should), just that the bonus game is less important to me than the other "extras" (one notable exception to this was the bonus game in the first "Brink of Consciousness" - that was great).

@Bigfishette - I will have to give "Mystery of the Ancients: Blackwater" a try. Sounds intriguing!

 
snapnhiss
Pufferfish
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1,483 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by snapnhiss on Jan 20, 13 8:57 AM
twinsoniclab wrote:

I am the opposite! I don't care if there are any screensavers, wallpapers, music, etc. I don't care for the pat-on-the-back achievements! If a game is good I usually get into it and forget to look for collectibles! The bonus game is ALL that matters to me!


I agree. While I enjoy *some* games with morphing items, etc. I find that if the game is good, I forget to look for them. They really do tend to take you out of the story.

My criteria for a CE basically just means there should be a strategy guide and a bonus game.

I never really "got" the appeal of achievements. It was fun to get gold stars in grade school but it doesn't mean much to me now.

 
sartasia
Stingray
Stingray
4,581 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by sartasia on Jan 20, 13 9:03 AM
Just wanted to raise my hand in agreement with most of what has been stated.

Interesting story, length, morphing objects, have to earn (not just awarded) achievements and a decent bonus game determine my choosing to buy a CE.

Screensavers, music, scratch art, SG (never use it) or ebooks are of no use to me what so ever. If these are what constitutes a CE it is a no buy for me.

The achievements that always appealed to me were the unexpected ones. Like "Easter Eggs". This may fall into the collectibles type or just a random action.

Achievements that are just given for preforming needed tasks to the game itself are rather silly.

Edited on 01/20/2013 at 9:08:09 AM PST


 
calsmom2001
Dogfish
Dogfish
1,785 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by calsmom2001 on Jan 20, 13 9:03 AM
Well snapnhiss and twinsoniclab, I guess that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. I just would hate to see EG make all their games like this one - clearly, there are lots of folks who do like the "extras", and until recently, EG could be counted upon to provide them. Perhaps they are looking at producing both sorts of games - a little something for everyone.

 
silverfiesta
Guppy
Guppy
155 Posts

To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by silverfiesta on Jan 20, 13 9:11 AM
calsmom2001 wrote:Elephant Games, since "Mystery Trackers: The Void" you have been one of my favorite developers. I have passed on a few of your games, but only a few. In general, your logo on the opening screen has meant an immediate buy. However, if you are now going down the road of no achievements, no collectables, no morphing objects - in short, the road of so many other developers, then that will no longer be true. I do not buy CEs for the screensavers, wallpapers, concept art, or music, none of which matter in the least to me. I buy CEs for the REAL extras - the things that require extra programming, not just gathering up a bunch of stuff that is already a byproduct of the development process, throwing it into the game and calling it a CE. I don't even make my decision based on bonus chapter(s); by the time I get to that point, I'm often kind of tired of the game. I'll play a bonus chapter, but it's not the decision maker for me. PLEASE EG, bring back that for which you are justly famous - give us the REAL extras you have in the past. Otherwise, I'm waiting for the SE, which is what I'll be doing with this game.


Ditto and VERY well said!!!!!

 
ediegamer
Lobster
Lobster
89 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by ediegamer on Jan 20, 13 9:34 AM
For me, all I really care about is a GREAT STORY with beautiful graphics that enhance the playing experience - something that will grab me from the beginning and hold my interest all the way to the end. Truthfully, I find the morphing objects a distraction and could just as well do without them. I, too, hold "Nutcracker" up as a shining example of excellent gameplay!

 
tejasgal
Manatee
Manatee
4,062 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by tejasgal on Jan 20, 13 10:05 AM
Very well said. I am on a very tight budget and rarely buy CE, but if I do, it needs to be something very special. Like most of the others here, I could care less about wallpaper, music, graphic art, etc. i want the morphing objects, collectables, or something that enhances the game experience.
Unfortunately, most game developers listen to the cha-ching of money. The only way to really get their attention is Not buying a CE. (Which, I fear is not going to happen, since most people say, oh I don't really like all the CE extra's, but will buy the game anyway.
Can't really complain if you are going to buy the product anyway.

 

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by LuvDemGames on Jan 20, 13 10:09 AM
snapnhiss wrote:
twinsoniclab wrote:

I am the opposite! I don't care if there are any screensavers, wallpapers, music, etc. I don't care for the pat-on-the-back achievements! If a game is good I usually get into it and forget to look for collectibles! The bonus game is ALL that matters to me!


I agree. While I enjoy *some* games with morphing items, etc. I find that if the game is good, I forget to look for them. They really do tend to take you out of the story.

My criteria for a CE basically just means there should be a strategy guide and a bonus game.

I never really "got" the appeal of achievements. It was fun to get gold stars in grade school but it doesn't mean much to me now.

I'm with you on this. If the game is good, I don't remember to look for morphing objects or anything outside of the gameplay. I never use a wallpaper, screensaver or anything of that sort; and I turn off all music. For me to spend double on a game, I want a good game, a strategy guide, and a bonus chapter. Also, if there is an interactive map, that is a real bonus!

 
lackoo
Pufferfish
Pufferfish
1,430 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by lackoo on Jan 20, 13 10:16 AM
Don't you think we " fans " are also responsible for this ?

We overhyped these developers ( .... rocks !! , .... rules !! ) and instantly bought their games just because we saw the logo of x or y developer on the intro screen .

( sorry for my english )

 

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by darkdisciple1313 on Jan 20, 13 10:22 AM
lackoo wrote:Don't you think we " fans " are also responsible for this ?

We overhyped these developers ( .... rocks !! , .... rules !! ) and instantly bought their games just because we saw the logo of x or y developer on the intro screen .

( sorry for my english )


In a word: yep.

This same logic of buying a game because of "x or y developer" is also why the Chicago Cubs still exist.


 
bobbiejo2
Guppy
Guppy
186 Posts

Re: Some of you are missing the point

[Post New]by bobbiejo2 on Jan 20, 13 10:41 AM
The developer has never put achievements or morphing objects in some of their game series. Some examples are the Grim Tales series and the Hallowed Legend Series. It may have something to do with the intensity of those story lines.

I have demo'd this game yet, but hope to do so later tonight.

For me, I always buy the CE for the bonus game and the strategy guide. Having the strategy guide built into the game is so much better than having to back out of a game to use a walkthrough.

This developer's games have excellent graphics and interesting story lines. I would rather have a quality game without the achievements and morphing objects than a mediocre one having the achievements and morphing objects.

I am sure the developer will put those extras in future games where it is determined to be appropriate.


 
cbtx
Stingray
Stingray
5,030 Posts

Re:To the devs: a disturbing trend

[Post New]by cbtx on Jan 20, 13 11:48 AM
lackoo wrote:Don't you think we " fans " are also responsible for this ?

We overhyped these developers ( .... rocks !! , .... rules !! ) and instantly bought their games just because we saw the logo of x or y developer on the intro screen .

( sorry for my english )


Exactly!!!!
As well as (....is in the house!!, ....has done it again!!, and ....-style graphics, and blah, blah, blah).
Praising devs is fine, but over the top, unwarranted gushing (and even getting extremely defensive to the point of getting nasty with those who dare to disagree with their "fan-based" assessment) leads to complacency by some devs, because they get a "free pass" no matter what---- resulting in rehashed, same-old, same-old offerings----especially of what constitutes CE material. Then, other devs simply see what's selling, and you have the whole crowd of them thinking that screensavers, wallpapers, concept art, and musical souindtracks are somehow critical to complete game enjoyment. They are nothing but but superfluous fluff to pad the product, and in no way enhance the game experience. (Especially musical soundtracks----I can't imagine anyone actually humming the tunes from a casual game or burning these little dittys onto a CD to listen to. LOL)

sartasia has summed up excellently what I look for in CEs. ("Easter Eggs"!! ----haven't seen one since a "Midnight Mysteries" game some time back.)

It would seem to me to be far more productive for gamers to judge games on individual merit rather than on who the developer is. Some devs rise, some devs fall----but bandwagon jumping leads to the creation of games that follow the pattern of what worked before will work again----and again, and again, and again.

 
 
 
 
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