judy76073
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General comment to Developers

[Post New]by judy76073 on Dec 28, 17 2:01 PM
Hi, there
I was not sure where to post this, however, it does pertain to the current game, as well as to other CE games. I have not posted this to offend any developers, it is just my opinion of what I have seen in some the more recent CE games (ie: the last year or so).

I just wanted to make a couple of comments. For the most part, I have quite enjoyed the game (Grim Façade: The Message) - graphics are awesome and the voiceovers are excellent. I have just started the bonus game. Absolutely no problems or glitches with the game (PC win 8.1). I also quite enjoyed some of the different hidden object scenes, some were quite different.

As a general comment - which actually goes for a lot of developers lately - is the seemingly constant use of "gimmicks" in games. Frankly, I can do without the use of them and in this instance, I did not think the device for looking for "ghost spirits" in every scene was really necessary. And the only "extras" were collecting a few coins at a time to purchase something and very few collectibles (only 14).

Another "peeve" is that there seems to be less and less "extras" in the CE games (ie: collectible items in the scenes (sometimes there used to be at least a couple of collectibles in each scene), morphing items in either the scenes or the hidden object scenes, To me, these are the extras, as well as the bonus game, that make the CE games more attractive. Also, once completed the main & bonus games, the option to go back and find what we may have missed (some games allow for this, others don't).

This is just my opinion, and as I mentioned at the start, I don't want to offend any developers because I do appreciate the effort that goes into making these games available to us to play and enjoy through BF Games.

That being said, I wish everyone a very happy and healthy New Year !

 
pennmom36
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by pennmom36 on Dec 28, 17 2:54 PM
@judy76073

I couldn't agree more, in fact I said something similar on my review. I don't understand why these games are offering less in their coveted CE games




......"it's clear to see they are putting forth great effort, but in the process, they seem to have lost sight of what a Collector's Edition is all about. I expect more collectibles in a CE, not less, and they've never even attempted to add Morphing Objects or any new features, why? Besides looting coins, the only collectibles offered in this Collector's Edition version, are a handful of Madame E's personal belongings!"

 
judy76073
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by judy76073 on Dec 28, 17 3:13 PM
yes, pennmom36 - I read your review & completely agreed with what you said - which is one of the reasons that prompted me to write this post and just toss in my 2 cents worth. I love HOPA CE games - they are my favorites - and I always look forward to new games & seeing what extra's they are offering to find throughout the game.

(sigh) - they are getting less and less.



 
bfgArinelle
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by bfgArinelle on Dec 28, 17 3:33 PM
Hi judy76073 and pennmom36 (and everyone else!),

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns about some of our recent releases. We definitely value feedback from our players about what they like and don't like in games, as this can help shape future offerings on the Big Fish Games site. I'll be sure to pass along the details from this thread. Thank you so much for your posts!

bfgArinelle

 
judy76073
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by judy76073 on Dec 28, 17 5:56 PM
bfgArinelle wrote:Hi judy76073 and pennmom36 (and everyone else!),

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and concerns about some of our recent releases. We definitely value feedback from our players about what they like and don't like in games, as this can help shape future offerings on the Big Fish Games site. I'll be sure to pass along the details from this thread. Thank you so much for your posts!

bfgArinelle


Much thanks for your reply ! Happy New Year !

 
nextgengranny
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by nextgengranny on Dec 28, 17 11:48 PM
Hi again, judy76073! Happy New Year!!

Thank you for starting this thread! Both you & pennmom have made very salient observations, which hopefully will be taken note of. Another thing I personally think s/b standard in CEs is the ability to replay both HOPs & mini-games.

As for what prompts me to purchase a CE over an SE, it's largely come to depend on how much I enjoy the demo for a game. If I really enjoy the demo & have reason, based on past experience w/ the dev, to believe I'll enjoy the rest of the game as much or more, I'll generally opt to purchase the CE, both for the sake of having a somewhat more expansive gaming experience, & because it's the one way I have of supporting devs who produce games I enjoy playing. Until recently, the inclusion of lots of collectibles was a driving factor for me in purchasing CEs, but I've found myself reverting to a "less is more" position where collectibles are concerned, partly in response to two games I purchased during the last couple months where the number & type of collectibles offered were a factor in my decision to purchase games as CEs that I otherwise would have waited to get as SEs w/ PCCs; in both cases, the paucity of enjoyable gameplay overall led me to regret my decision. To those who take pleasure in the hunt for collectibles itself, this obviously wouldn't be the case, it's just worked out that way for me.

I do think that in many cases, things like devices, cut scenes, collectibles, & items that require the assembly of more than two pieces are used by devs as substitutes for what I think of as actual gameplay. In a game I demoed recently, I had to gather three separate pieces (in three separate places) to assemble a scissors, & at the end of the demo, I had a yet another scissors blade in my inventory...& you know what THAT means. That right there was enough to put me off, as to me, it served as an indicator of the amount of meaningless busywork the dev had incorporated in the game.

I have to admit, the number of devs I seem likely to purchase CEs (or even SEs) from anymore is getting smaller & smaller, due to just these types of issues. Here's hoping they're paying attention when people like you speak up!!

ETA: Best wishes to fishes everywhere in the New Year!

Edited on 12/29/2017 at 12:26:28 AM PST


 
pennmom36
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by pennmom36 on Dec 29, 17 5:10 AM
@judy76073 & nexgengranny:

Something else I've noticed lately is that some of the lesser known devs have really been stepping up to the plate. They are really trying to improve, and offer more features. They see that there is a gap, and are determined to get their foot in the door so to speak. The popular dev who releases one game after another (not sure I can name names) seems to be deducting CE bling, for example, they used to have Morphing Objects in every scene (my personal favorite) then they removed them and only offered them within the HOP's, now they simply don't have any Morphs!

Do you guys remember the early Dark Parables games? Those games were non-linear games, and when you first visited a scene, the morphs didn't morph. Morphs didn't morph until they were "triggered" by an action in a different scene, and you never knew what that trigger was, or which scene would trigger it! This feature resulted in a massive Easter Egg hunt, and I remember having to search all over the place, revisiting scenes constantly in order to catch the morph, and often times, they hadn't been triggered yet, sometimes not until I had made my way through several more scenes!

It just seems that the devs no longer bother to think outside the box, Who could blame them, if they are selling games like hotcakes without having to put forth a lot of effort? Bottom line is, if they are selling games as is, and people are buying them as is, they see it as conformation that nothing needs to change! I'm glad you opened this thread, maybe, just maybe, it will catch the eye of a dev or two, perhaps you should create a post similar to this on every CE forum, at least the ones that are offering very little CE bling?

 
nextgengranny
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by nextgengranny on Dec 29, 17 7:29 AM
Hi, pennmom. Since I think you're talking about Eipix, I'm going to name the name, as I respectfully disagree that they no longer offer morphs or think outside the box. Having played more of their series now, some of them, such as Saga, MotW, & HE, include morphs, & some apparently don't (in the HOPs only, of course, which I know you don't care for, but which I personally prefer). As for thinking outside of the box, they do the best job, for me, of regularly coming up w/ new mini-games, & they've been steadily improving the adventure aspect of their games, which is something I greatly enjoy. Also, if you played Order Zero, you may recall that they went outside of the box far enough regarding the morphs that a lot of people balked at the change (I hope that doesn't stop Eipix from using them again, BTW, as I found them more challenging to spot, & therefore more fun). As for CE extras, Eipix has provided replay of HOPs & mini-games for some time now, something some other well established devs still don't do. I normally don't bother about their Souvenir Rooms too much, but I always at least check them out, as some of them, such as for the Lost Paradise & Four Stags CEs, have proven to be quite good. The areas they most need to work on, to me, are the length of their bonus chapters, & coming up w/ good storylines more consistently.

I imagine some folks reading this may think I'm a "fangirl" of sorts, but those would be folks who haven't seen the reviews I gave the latest installments of Phantasmat & Hidden Expedition. I've liked most games I've played by them, but I never give them a pass when I think a game of theirs is cr@p.

Not knowing what smaller devs you're referring to, I can't really comment on that; I could hazard a guess or two (though I don't know how much smaller they are), but in that case, I'm pretty sure the names wouldn't be allowed to stand. The ones I'm thinking of, though, seem to rely a great deal on a plethora of collectibles to make their games more attractive. That's absolutely great for those who love their collectibles, & I certainly have nothing against that, until recently, I loved them myself (see earlier comment). I've just come back to the point I started at, I suppose, to where other aspects of a game matter more.

After all, the original Phantasmat had neither morphs nor collectibles, & it's a considered by many to be a classic. I'm thinking I'm going to replay that one today.

Edited on 12/29/2017 at 7:33:06 AM PST


 
pennmom36
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by pennmom36 on Dec 29, 17 12:46 PM
@nextgengrannt

I actually agree with about Eipix heading in the right direction, I think they are making progress at times. I even included some kudos on my review of Dead Reckoning:

"I've always wondered if devs actually read the feedback we fishies give on their games, and other games as well. I think they must, because it looks to me like Eipix has tried to duplicate the font and style of one of my favorite devs (not sure I'm allowed to mention which rival it is) I don't remember this particular style being used by Eipix before. If you play a lot of HOPA games, I'm sure you'll recognize the familiar font used, and even the same modern look of the information tabs, and the style of all the extras, even the look of the icon that pops up when you select the hint to allow you to travel quickly to that scene. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's one of the things I love about the other dev, the clean sharp lines, crisp graphics, and the use of modern technology! In my opinion, Eipix has evolved (a teeny tiny bit)! They were able to take a dated series (I reckon I should say dead series) and modernize it to be relevant with just a few tweaks. NO, this isn't a cookie cutter version, take notice, because I for one, want these guys to know that we grew weary of the same thing over and over in every game series they create. I want them to know that we "see" the change, even though they are are just small changes, and appreciate their effort! Otherwise they will remain in their comfort zone, and never attempt anything new, baby steps, one step at a time."


I think what I'm trying to get across, is that I personally want lot's of bling in a CE that I have to pay twice as much for, otherwise I may as well just buy the SE version. The reason I buy a CE is usually because I get the morphs and collectibles as well. On Redemption Cemetery for example, all that was really offered in the CE (other than SG, wallpaper etc) was Chaos? My point is, if we "settle" for less in a CE, less is what we'll get. What happens when they decide a SG isn't necessary in a CE? What if they choose not to include a BC?

Here, this rounds on me

 
nextgengranny
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by nextgengranny on Dec 29, 17 5:20 PM
Well, we obviously disagree on Eipix, as I don't see them as trying to emulate MH. If anything, I see other devs emulating them, for example, the number of new series set in London cropping up in the wake of the success of Vermillion Watch (only one I'm aware of having been released at this point, but another is being developed). I don't have a problem agreeing to disagree, though, & I know you don't, either, so we might as well just let that one ride.

As for the profusion of collectibles, all I can say is they detract from my experience after a certain point. This is probably another reason why the way Eipix does it suits me, as having one collectible per area & morphs in the HOPs is just right for me. Beyond that, I want to focus on other aspects of the game, & that's where I want the meat of the game to be, as well.

Also, while I can't speak for other devs on this account, Eipix isn't taking away anything by not adding what they never had. In the meantime, as mentioned previously, there are extras such as replayable HOPs & mini-games they've offered for some time that some other established devs, such as the afore-mentioned MH, still don't (HOPs, yes, but mini-games, no). Eipix offers one of the best "packages" of extras that I'm aware of, while taking away nothing, & I'm not concerned that they will going forward.

For those who want a ton of collectibles, there's plenty of devs offering that, so no worries on that account, either. And now this round, of course, is on me. Cheers!

Edited on 01/05/2018 at 11:14:45 PM PST


 
nextgengranny
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by nextgengranny on Dec 29, 17 5:34 PM
Just had to add an "extra" I thought of that I wish they'd ALL get rid of: Those wretched, gimmicky devices, particularly the ones where you have to scan an entire area looking for whatever. I can think of three or four series off the top of my head that incorporate such devices as part of their core concept now, & as far as I'm concerned, that's three or four too many!!

 
pennmom36
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by pennmom36 on Dec 30, 17 3:53 AM
Cheers to that last statement (while nextgengranny get's distracted with with the drink I just offered her), I open up my backpack, aarr anybody got a paperclip? nevermind, I got it, she opens up her backpack, and pulls out the "spirit" "soul" "ghost" aka "orb catcher" step by step, inch by inch, she scans the room, aaaahhhh (hands slap both sides of pennmoms face as she gasps and points to the area where she's just gotten a glimpse of....SYMBOLS!!!!~....she panics, nextgengranny, is still calmly sipping her

Edited on 12/30/2017 at 4:01:19 AM PST


 
jennsmom
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by jennsmom on Dec 30, 17 10:23 AM
judy76073, after hitting skip at the 6th gimmick headhunt (because a few is fine but every 5 minutes is boring), I came here to post about it, and found your comment. Spot on! Thank you.

 
nextgengranny
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by nextgengranny on Dec 30, 17 4:18 PM
Grasshopper (aka pennmom), you must master the "flying cocktail" technique, which will enable you to defeat runes without spilling your drink! O.O

 
bobhillman
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by bobhillman on Dec 31, 17 7:45 PM
pennmom36 wrote:Cheers to that last statement (while nextgengranny get's distracted with with the drink I just offered her), I open up my backpack, aarr anybody got a paperclip? nevermind, I got it, she opens up her backpack, and pulls out the "spirit" "soul" "ghost" aka "orb catcher" step by step, inch by inch, she scans the room, aaaahhhh (hands slap both sides of pennmoms face as she gasps and points to the area where she's just gotten a glimpse of....SYMBOLS!!!!~....she panics, nextgengranny, is still calmly sipping her


pennmom36, do I detect a veiled reference to the astonishingly irritating practice which all devs seem to be prone to - yes, the broken zip, which really should have been consigned to the bin several years ago, along with "the box that has a latch missing". Surely a box which has latches missing is actually easier to open than one which has them all still present?

And bearing in mind the time & date that I'm posting this, Happy New Year!

 
pennmom36
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by pennmom36 on Jan 1, 18 6:58 AM
@bobhillman

Happy New Year to you as well

Rob, can you hand me that can of oil that instantly removes 30 years of rust and corrosion, and leaves the item as bright and shiny as the day it was made?

While I have a minute or two, let me just sift through this random junk pile heaped conveniently on the floor: hmm, let's see now, I need a feather, a smoking pipe, a bell, a key, an inkwell, a horseshoe shaped magnet, a scoop, a sickle and oh yes a screwdriver! (one that I will surely throw away after one use, only to discover that I need another one 10 minutes later)

 
Tomsde
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Re:General comment to Developers

[Post New]by Tomsde on Jan 8, 18 5:45 PM
Please provide indicators of scenes that have collector's items in future releases and in not that please allow us to go to the collections and return to the scenes where we missed them to hunt for them to finish our collections. It's very disheartening to me when I miss collectibles and can't go back because those areas are now locked and try to find where I missed them.

 
 
 
 
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